Potential mods?

[suryad]

TRD LSD available at trdsparks now

Fidanza lightweight flywheel kit

You think the local dealer would do it? I kinda want to keep the warranty on the LSD...also what are pulley mods? I keep hearing about NST pulleys?

[suryad]

Also found this....what is the difference between this http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=150881 and a header? Also looked at a ZPI Stage 2 head kit + forged rods. Would those be good mods to go with? What about polishing and porting throttle bodies? God all this stuff is like hebrew to me. I need to read more and more!

[slimsdizz]

NST makes and underdrive pulley if you own a manual go with the lightened flywheel and better clutch hang up the idea of a pulley. read my pulley thread they really only show huge gains on automatic scions. if your TC is an automatic then get a lightened pulley i would recomend agency powr as it is the least expensive an lightest. trying to get your belt lengths right on a NST pully is a challenge but it can be done they are just very expensive you get almost the same gains from the less expensive agency power pulley which is lighter then the perrin pulley and all the other pullies out. pullies should only be used on automatics in my opinion this is also the opinion held by alot of other people read my pulley thread it may help you out some.

[suryad]

Thanks man for your post.

I was also looking at these mods. You think they are worth it? I guess I will stick with N/A for the most part.

Pistons - http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=63 (http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=63)

Forged rods - http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=175 (http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=175)

Stage 2 Head kit - http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=187 (http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=187)

[aalbertson3]

Thanks man for your post.

I was also looking at these mods. You think they are worth it? I guess I will stick with N/A for the most part.

Pistons - http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=63 (http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=63)

Forged rods - http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=175 (http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=175)

Stage 2 Head kit - http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=187 (http://www.zeropointindustries.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=28_80&products_id=187)

You should really only get those if you are going F/I...
Kinda over kill for N/A

[suryad]

Hmm so if I am to understand correctly, then N/A wont benefit from those? Is it because those heads are lower compression possibly to accomodate for turbochargers and therefore not worth it?

[suryad]

http://www.pistons-online.com (http://www.pistons-online.com/)
http://www.racetep.com/JE.html (http://www.racetep.com/JE.html)

Anyone heard of these piston makers?

[slimsdizz]

I would call these guys http://www.importperformanceparts.net/ if you want to raise the compression also weisco shoud have pistons made for yor car by now to do an overboar and raise the compression. This company is where i got my overboar kit for my XA which is being supercharged right now i would imagine they could easliy steer you in the right direction for your tC parts and save you tons of money. i looked at the ZPi head advertisment. it's fine and all that but my major question would be are your heads done on a NASCAR quality Flow bench. most companies that do head work get out cheap by not using super high end flow benches. I am not saying this is the case I would just ask the question. thats an awfulley steep price for head work of course it does come with an emanage. I would just make sure it was done on a flow bench. if your going all motor. for the kind of money your talking about dropping you really should just turbo the car honestley or since you have expessed concern over messing up your daily driver take the money and buy a weekend play toy. do some small mods to your scion and buy something you can go out and just have a ton of fun with on the weekend. for the money your talking and I know this is a scion forum but you could buy 91 crx or civc hatch do a ZC motor swap and drop in a spercharger and some coilovers and heder and exhaust I know we get our ZC motors with LSD for 400 bucks delivered all you have to do is change the timing belt and water pump and fluids before running one. I think the jackson kit with the 14 pounds of boost pulley for the ZC motor is like 1,400 bucks you have to put 100 bucks into a bigger fuel pump and other 150 into bigger injectors but you could have a really nice tourque monster curve killing car for the amount of money your talking and then you wouldn't have to worry about your scion at all. I think the TC can be done safeley thats for sure but you have expressed concern about it and I think it is sitting in the back of your mind so I figured I would throw out all options to you. there are even more options but this post would be a mile long.

[scionara_tC]

http://www.pistons-online.com (http://www.pistons-online.com/)
http://www.racetep.com/JE.html (http://www.racetep.com/JE.html)

Anyone heard of these piston makers?

JE are big in 240 circles but like aalbertson3 said, those mods are usually made so the engine can withstand the increased compression that comes from FI

think of it as a pressure cooker. With FI you're adding more air mass which gives you a bigger explosion with creates more compression. with NA unless you're adding some SERIOUS compression, you won't need these.

i was reading about a NA Miata that was using engine trumpets to increase power. i have been searching online but haven't found the article yet. i'll post a link if i do.

[suryad]

Thanks for the post guys. I got an email already from the JE guys....he told me they could do tC pistons for NA no prob with whatever bore and compression I give them...for 650. Plus if I wanted to customize for higher rpms or molybdenum.ceramic coating, extreme lightening etc etc....it will ad up to about a grand. The reply came in very quick.

Now I understand compression but I dont understand bore....bore as in the volume of the pistons? Cause arent pistons cylindrical objects hollowed out in the middle?

Yeah you are right it is a lot of money but I am not going to do it all at once...like for example I ordered my I/H/E all together but I am only gonna get my headers installed this weekend....I am gonna stick with that setup prob for at least 5-6 months and only towards the end of this year when I am feeling totally confident and I have done a lot of research and talked to a lot of forum members, then I will order the parts one at a time, and get them added one at a time by a pro. It is a matter of time and research. I am just fascinated with N/A. I am not doing this just for horsepower's sake. I know this is a Scion tC and not a Murcielago. Thats why I am not looking for outrageous turbos with methane injection and nitrous kits. I am gonna go au naturale on this one. Know what I mean? I am gonna be very very patient with this one cause yes this is a lot of money after all. So keep your posts coming in. Great learning for me!

[slimsdizz]

ok now that I know for a fact your gonna stick with your scion TC here is what I would suggest doing a 30 overboar 40 is bigger but it makes it more complicated rebuilding an engine and cylinder walls get thinner so you have to blueprint and balance the heck out of the motor. so I would buy high compresion 30 overboar pistons good rings. have the block bored if it isn't sleeved like the XA and XB I haven't torn down a TC yet if it is slevved then it's easy you just change out the sleeves thats what we did on mine. say like my XA engine is 1.5 liters with the 30 overboar it's almost 1.6 liters so your moving more air thus allowing more fuel thus allowing more combustion= more power of course there are alot of other factors like the head that come into play here. as far as the block thats what I would do then with the head I would see if i couldn't have the whole head done and just do the exhaust side ported and polished not the intake side this eliminates the risk of running lean. I've seen flow benched port and polished heads run lean on one cylinder when they are done on the intake side. then of course your gonna want a speed limiter delete from HKS and either a revlimiter delete or you might be able to do it with emanage. get lightened connecting rods for the pistons have the crank pulled out and knifeedged and balanced. your talking alot of bread but if the right components are available you could make a seriousley sick super high RPM TC. NA just don't skimp on parts do it all right or don't do it. I mean new valves new valve springs new rocker arms new cams if available or a cam regrind takeing your time with the bloack upgradeing the fuel comonents and then finally having the right people tune it. i do think ZPi could tune it if you use emange they seem to be good with emanage. They may be able to hel you get some f the componens you need that are in theri heads like the valve springs ect. i have not pulled a TC motor apart yet I need to. but the XA and XB motors are easy to take either way your talking an inframe to swap the pistons.

[suryad]

Hey thanks slimsdizz. Appreciate the input. I wanna do this good and I wanna do it right. What parts would you recommend to get worked on? I am thinking of having JE build the pistons for me. If you want I can paste osme of the options of what the JE guy offered me for the scion tC pistons...to help you recommend me what to get.

[slimsdizz]

post up what you have in mind I do not think you need to go extreme with super light pistons just get some good forged high compression 30 overboar pistons get some good rings,high performance main bearings,Maybe Toda has somethingget some light weight connecting rods good companies we use on cars are eagle or carrillo. weisco makes great pistons as well and has for a very long time and they deal with high compression engines they started out with dirt bikes. i think one of the most important parts of the project is finding the right person to knfe edge and balance the crank. Thats going to allow those high RPM's and fast revving and make the whole engine perform better. Then doing the head work. even if you keep the stock valves getting better springs ect will do alot for you. doing a cams would be good or a regrind if nobody makes replacements. and doing the port and polish on the exhaust side is optional but would make a bit of a diffrence. then comes your fuel management and how your going to control everything. you really need to find somone who has been doing this for twenty plus years. I'd say hey come to our shop but your talking a three month waight just to get in the door and if you bought all the components on your own your looking at about 5-8 grand in labor and machine work. My boss doesn't come cheap and there is a reason for that too and yes we have a nascar level flow bench thats why I am telling you the truth about port and polish I don't care how good you are sometimes you do the intake side your gonna have cylinder that runs lean thankfulley standalones today allow you to adjust to fix that but it doesn't happen often but it does happen not just here but everywhere most people just don't have the balls to admit it happens they fix the problem when they tune the car and the customer never knows. but anyways. find a good shop and your going to be pulling parts from more than one company for sure you tell me your gonna do this over time wll alot of this stuff has to be done together and at the same time so maybe your car is still fairley new so you start buying parts now and write out everything you need and the cost and check stuff off as you go down the list after buying it and maybe by the time you hit a hundred thousand miles you will have all the compnents to build it. I had a friend that did this on his prelude. I definentley have alot done to my XA and more in the works but it is my daily driver I have a weekend playtoy and I am just the type that thinks everyone should have a weekend playtoy whther it be a car a motorcycle a jetski dirtbike fourwheeler. but if your going all motor it's cool just know your gonna spend twice the money and your dtill gonna get your but handed to you by alot of turbo cars. where your gonna acelerate is in turns on the track. so if you do it better nto plan on drag racing better plan on dropping some money in suspension for the course.

[suryad]

THanks for all the info. Good to know. Of course I am not getting them all all at once....I am gonna by a few parts at a time and then when I have them all, then I can go and get it installed all at once. Right now research is the word of the day.

[slimsdizz]

straight up going all motor the cheapest most practical way for you would be this setup since oyur buying it in parts. otherwise your gonna have to stockpile parts and do it all at once.

1. buy high compression pistons with the right rings do an overboar if you want too the cheapest and easiest is gonna be just replacing the stock pistons.

2. buy lightened connecting rods

3. find a good machinist

4.find better crank bearings that can withstand the rpm's

5. get a good clutch and flywheel

6 get new valve springs and new cams.

now here is where you do an inframe your looking at a grand in labor pull everything out rehone the cylinders pull the crank out have it knifeedged and balanced. put it back in with new bearings drop in the pistons and connecting rods and a mchine shop shouldn't charge you more than 100 bucks to check the head while it's off install the new spring cams and valves if you get them. buy a new high compression head gasket install it and your looking at a otal cost of roughley 3 grand at the right shop. and a two day job it will be a week by the time the crank is machined. If you pull the block out and it has to be bored out to do a 30 overboar your money jumps up tremendousley if it is sleeved like the XA and XB it won't but if that block has to come out your up in the 5-6 grand range by the time it's bored over blueprinted and balanced and you new clutch is instaled and the flywheel shaved. really it comes down to how much money you have and frankley you would do alot better with a turbo kit. I am going to be honest I see alot of guys who try to do this stuffin parts and they never reach their goal and they end up wasteing more money then actually makeing power. you have alot to think about going all motor is a very expensive proposition and anyone that tells you diffrent is crazy. now maybe if you found a company looking to do a TC all mototr you might luck out. but you do these things all at one time or go turbo. Thats pureley my opinion I have seen some sick hondas done all motor but guys buy an extra motor and spend five years in theri garages building them themselves unless you have a boatload of cash. you cannot do a part here and a part there it doesn't work like that. what are you gonna do pull out the carank one month and kinfedge it and put it back in and then three months later pay labor again to go back in the motor and swap the pistons and connecting rods then a year later somone go in and do the head man you might as well buy a skyline at that point because thats the kinda money your gonna be droping if you do it that way. you eitehr stockpile the parts and do it all at once. or you go turbo or you buy an extra otor and build it over a period of time. not to slam your thinking on it but it's just not feasable to do a part here a part there unless your just gonna do some minor modifications you really need to evaluate your plan and take some time an really really think about it. because you can spend double the cash and those ZPI Tc's are gonna wipe the floor with you I'm not saying that to be mean I just want you to allocate your money wiseley and form a solid game plan if your going to do it all motor. it has to be done at one time it's just like a turbo kit you don't install half a turbo kit and say well next month I'll put on the turbo or the wastegate or next month I will put in the right injectors. it's just not how it's done unless you have a motor sitting in your garage your building yourself over time.

[toyota_scion_tc]

I have herd of JE not sure on how good they are, I seen them at nopi and over the Internet before. Trdsparks will install anything, I don't see them voiding your warranty for LSD or Light flywheel. If they try to you should be able to fight it. The law states if you have your car for warranty repairs and they will not honor it because of your mods they have to prove that your mods or mod caused the part failure.

[slimsdizz]

yes JE makes great products some of it gets a little pricey for what you get but they make good forged stuff. and any issue about warranty yu should read magnus VS moss law google it. Yes they have to prove it but they also bet on the fact that most people don't have the 2-5 grand to hire the attorney to fight it.

[Krdshrk]

Honestly - building the motor and going all-motor in the tC isn't worth it - you're not gonna get the power that you want unless you go F/I.

All the aftermarket internals that are out for the motor aren't geared to all-motor. They're for F/I.

[slimsdizz]

thats basically what I have been trying to tell him you just cannot do it in steps and for the money he should just get up with some of you TC guys and put a turbo or a supercharger on it.