Tuning The Supercharged XB ( Dyno Sheet Is Up! )

[Retro Style]

Well, I just got back from the muffler shp and got my bung welded in. Thursday is the day we find out if all this trouble was worth it.

I installed the Blitz Supercharger with the help of Jon, Brad, and my Father on July 30th of last year. Now finally, almost a year later, the Camcon is in, thanks to Vaughn and Brad.

I am so excited to see my supercharger finally push the numbers it was always suppose to and maybe more. Tulsa Dyno will be doing the work at 4:00 on Thursday and hopefully we will see some good numbers.....

More to come.........

[J_R_Ceja]

Well, I just got back from the muffler shp and got my bung welded in. Thursday is the day we find out if all this trouble was worth it.

I installed the Blitz Supercharger with the help of Jon, Brad, and my Father on July 30th of last year. Now finally, almost a year later, the Camcon is in, thanks to Vaughn and Brad.

I am so excited to see my supercharger finally push the numbers it was always suppose to and maybe more. Tulsa Dyno will be doing the work at 4:00 on Thursday and hopefully we will see some good numbers.....

More to come.........

Sounds like major surgery, good luck with the numbers, hopefully they'll be high. :up: BOX :weight:

[cz3ch]

Well, I just got back from the muffler shp and got my bung welded in. Thursday is the day we find out if all this trouble was worth it.

I installed the Blitz Supercharger with the help of Jon, Brad, and my Father on July 30th of last year. Now finally, almost a year later, the Camcon is in, thanks to Vaughn and Brad.

I am so excited to see my supercharger finally push the numbers it was always suppose to and maybe more. Tulsa Dyno will be doing the work at 4:00 on Thursday and hopefully we will see some good numbers.....

More to come.........

Just make sure you are conversative with your tuning brandon... If you need any help, call me.. I have extensive experience with "blown" apps..
And if you decide you want to make it a bit safer and get another 5whp out of it, let's go alcohol/methonal injection :) It'll keep your air charge cool, enrich the mixture, and eliminate any potential for detonation..and it's cheap to refill the tanks...

[Retro Style]

Just make sure you are conversative with your tuning brandon... If you need any help, call me.. I have extensive experience with "blown" apps..
And if you decide you want to make it a bit safer and get another 5whp out of it, let's go alcohol/methonal injection :) It'll keep your air charge cool, enrich the mixture, and eliminate any potential for detonation..and it's cheap to refill the tanks...

I have been thinking about methanol injection but what would that cost me to run?

[whatmovesu]

Good luck on the tuning. If it goes well then I hope you give me a spin in it at asylum.

[BATComm1]

Its relativly cheap Brandon...my dad uses it on the Grand National, you can buy a kit just about anywhere and the install is easy..at least it was on the GN, my dads is a manual use set-up, but you can put a micro-switch on your throttle stop and get it to spray only when at WOT. I'll ask my dad what the methanol cost's but I know its not much..and I'm sure..or I hope..you wont use as much as he does... :up:

and is that the dyno on 11th street or the one off of memorial behind Catapillar.

[Retro Style]

The one on 11th you thinking about showing up over there or something?

[cz3ch]

I have been thinking about methanol injection but what would that cost me to run?
The best plug and play kits out there are the SMC kits. They are hands down the most reliable and high quality. I took SMC's design and tweaked it into a dual stage. Basically here is how it works:

You bore two holes in your CAI, one about 1/3rd of the way from the filter, the other one about 4-5" from the throttle body. You have a low pressure/output nozzle near the filter side, and a high pressure/output nozzle near the throttle body side. When the CAI sucks in the air, a switch is hit (I built a custom two stage switch that will trigger the first one on 1/2 throttle), and alky/meth is shot in via the first stage, this cools the hot incoming hair, and the alcohol dissapates by the time it gets to the throttle body.. End result, cooler air=more hp.. maybe a 2-3hp increase.. now once that threshold is met and you go 3/4-WOT then stage two will kick in while stage 1 is still spraying. Stage 1 again cools the air charge, then stage 2 will cool the charge again after the MAF/MAS and also because it's higher pressure/output the alky will enrich the fuel mixture, bringing a normal 91 octane up to about 95. So you will get nice cool air going into the Throttle body to mix with the fuel, as well it will be laced with the alcohol, which raises the octane, kills knock/detonation, and increases your HP. By adding this type of system, you can turn up boost and still maintain safe baselines. In my last ride, we were able to demonstrate how the system increased the whp by 20+ on 3 different pulls and we also saw no detonation when we decided to turn up the boost into "no mans land". We also had something called a JC Safeguard which is essentially a timing controller which we were able to eliminate by adding alky.

Long story short.. Alcohol.... it's what's for dinner!

[cz3ch]

Its relativly cheap Brandon...my dad uses it on the Grand National, you can buy a kit just about anywhere and the install is easy..at least it was on the GN, my dads is a manual use set-up, but you can put a micro-switch on your throttle stop and get it to spray only when at WOT. I'll ask my dad what the methanol cost's but I know its not much..and I'm sure..or I hope..you wont use as much as he does... :up:

and is that the dyno on 11th street or the one off of memorial behind Catapillar.

Btw, methanol you can get at home depot for like 2-4$ for a 2-3gallon jug... and sometimes cheaper... Usually the tanks will hold 1/2-1Gallon.. and it does last a bit unless you drive like a leadfoot and are always beating on it...

Think of alcohol injection as running on race gas 24/7 :P it's a godsend

One thing to be careful of... is that you can easily bog the engine down with to much spray, you'll end up with a rich condition and start losing power and start to gunk the works...

[BATComm1]

Its relativly cheap Brandon...my dad uses it on the Grand National, you can buy a kit just about anywhere and the install is easy..at least it was on the GN, my dads is a manual use set-up, but you can put a micro-switch on your throttle stop and get it to spray only when at WOT. I'll ask my dad what the methanol cost's but I know its not much..and I'm sure..or I hope..you wont use as much as he does... :up:

and is that the dyno on 11th street or the one off of memorial behind Catapillar.

Btw, methanol you can get at home depot for like 2-4$ for a 2-3gallon jug... and sometimes cheaper... Usually the tanks will hold 1/2-1Gallon.. and it does last a bit unless you drive like a leadfoot and are always beating on it...

Think of alcohol injection as running on race gas 24/7 :P it's a godsend

One thing to be careful of... is that you can easily bog the engine down with to much spray, you'll end up with a rich condition and start losing power and start to gunk the works...





Yup...thats the prices I got from my dad...and yes I may show up at the dyno if I'm not busy..its only about 2 miles from my house... :up:

[Retro Style]

Cool, hope to see you there Brad. As far as the Methanol/Water injection..... that is something I am seriously thinking about, not so much for HP gain, but to keep the engine safer by eliminating pre detenation. Safe is always better.

So now the question is, where to get a kit the cheapest and when can we install it?

I shouldn't need to retune should I? I just like the idea of a stage I. Stage II would be just a plus. And to have it only open at 3/4 ~ WOT will save me from going through tanks to much lol.

[DriverLost]

Dang, I need to get around more. We have some valuable knowlage on SciKoticS :bow:

This is a great topic.
I have been considering alcohol for my turbo bug, but figured added fuel would be eaisier and cheaper for me. I know a richer environment is not what I need to control pinging at high boost, a cooler combustion air, and higher octane is the easiest cure. But a wast for low/no boost. Not the colder air part :crazy:

Let me tell you a bit about my set up, and my idea. My bug has a very crude set up, but it cost me very little to set up. I know going fuel injection with a knock sensor ignition set up would solve many problems. But I need to keep the exposed engine as simple looking as possible. It goes with the old school look, and makes it much better when I spank V8's :trophy:

I'm pulling through a carburetor with no intercooler. (I know :doh: ) The engine is already been set up for the turbo. dropped the compression to about a 9 to 1, race ware bolts, double HD valve springs, turbo head gasket, ext. boost full is only about 6- 8lbs for street, set to dump with the stock waste gate. with pump gas I still get ping under low boost.

Now 108 track gas, same low boost, dial in the cam, push my timming up a scosh, I'm running low 12's. Some pinging, not much to worry about in a 1/4 mile time.

My idea is to set up a fifth injector, ( a intake manifold injector in my case), to kick in on its own fuel pump. Now most set it up like you have, throttle body/carb micro switch to activate. I'm thinking, the engine doesn't give a crap about whether or not my foots to the floor or not. Its when the boost rises and all hell happens in the air fuel area. I'm thinking, set it up on a presure switch. When boost rises, let say at 5lbs. The fifth injector sprays extra fuel. Or even better alcohol.

What do you think? Has this been done, or am I missing something? I have not found anyone on the internet or the track with this set up. This boost stuff is all kinda new to me. Only been messing around with it for about 4 years and have learned more on trial and error than advise from others.

I have a bigger turbo that will be going on my bug next year. My box will likely see its current one some time out of the warranty.

I hope to get it right on the bug, and take it to the box when I do. Fuel injection, intercooler, knock sensors It should be easier, just more money.

Rob

[Retro Style]

Well here is the outcome...............................

1. Camcon doesn't work...... either is broke or not wired right..... I will look into this later.
2. Blitz Fuel Controller is almost right on the money. Runs a hair rich and timing is off but that can be tuned out to get about 5-10 more HP if I can get the Camcon working.
3. While the camcon was on no matter what you adjusted, the A/F was always the same no matter what. It never changed and it was DANGEROUSLY lean the whole timew never going below 14. Should be below 12 at all times.

Here is the dyno, and no I am not even posting the Camcon dyno's. Just the Blitz Dyno as it is legit. Tulsa dyno stated 150 at the crank 120 wheel hp.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL99/805774/8432662/140907174.jpg

Video from my cell phone coming soon.... but sound is really loud being only feet from the car.

[Anonymous]

looks like you need some troubleshooting to do my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[Retro Style]

Here is the video of the last run I did, was only 114hp at the wheels because the knock sensor retarded the timing around 5500 rpm. The video was taken with my cell so it isn't the best quality.

Click here for dyno video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/3E66BD4F-D3AA-46F3-BE67-7AB5291B4C58.htm)

[mafiamike]

"That was worse!"
"Yeah" :(

[cz3ch]

Here is the video of the last run I did, was only 114hp at the wheels because the knock sensor retarded the timing around 5500 rpm. The video was taken with my cell so it isn't the best quality.

Click here for dyno video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/3E66BD4F-D3AA-46F3-BE67-7AB5291B4C58.htm)

Need to find out what's causing you to knock like that...
Also you are running too lean too far into your power band.. potentially related to the jacked up timing.. I'm trying to remember why you are running the camcon again? You can get away without it you know? Then again blitz' fuel tuner sucks balls...

Fun video though bro... let me know if u need any help/advice...

[Retro Style]

Well the camcon does not work so that is out of the equation now unless we can figure out WHY it isn't working. If you look at the dyno sheet you will see that the timing is out and that the air fuel is just a tad rich. The blitz fuel controller is a piece of crap because you can't adjust anything. I can squeeze another 10hp safely with tuning once I find out what is wrong with the camcon or what I can use to tune the timing and af. Until then I am at a standstill.

Still not sure why it knocked and retarded the timing. May have been the ECU relearning against the fuel controller from Blitz. 1st blitz run was better because the EFI fuses were freshly pulled.

[cz3ch]

Well the camcon does not work so that is out of the equation now unless we can figure out WHY it isn't working. If you look at the dyno sheet you will see that the timing is out and that the air fuel is just a tad rich. The blitz fuel controller is a piece of crap because you can't adjust anything. I can squeeze another 10hp safely with tuning once I find out what is wrong with the camcon or what I can use to tune the timing and af. Until then I am at a standstill.

Still not sure why it knocked and retarded the timing. May have been the ECU relearning against the fuel controller from Blitz. 1st blitz run was better because the EFI fuses were freshly pulled.

Let's do some research... I think we could make this work with an e-manageblue or an SafcII if you are willing to fuck with it... PM me and we'll exchange numbers and talk shop...

cz

[Retro Style]

Well, for the moment, I am in search for that money tree so I can buy either the blue emanage / apexi SAFCII. Until then I have got to put it on hold.....

[cz3ch]

Well, for the moment, I am in search for that money tree so I can buy either the blue emanage / apexi SAFCII. Until then I have got to put it on hold.....

Understandable.. just keep it tuned "safe" and drive it nicely... and I'd go with the blue-emanage.. ill see if i can get you a hookup on the pricing if you want one... obviously it's not going to be tuned to match the blitz system... but anyways..

[Nvdisxb]

all that done and only got 12 more horse and than stk

wanna race my 75,000 mile b
lol think ive got enough miles on mine that its pretty well tuned

[Nvdisxb]

oops
this is jason- crkrbox
im on matts 4got to change names at his house

[Retro Style]

Stock Scion xB = 109 HP
BOOSTBOX = 150 HP

Stock Scion xB = 89 WHP
BOOSTBOX = 120 WHP

Where is there only 12 more HP? And this is not tuned either........

[cz3ch]

Stock Scion xB = 109 HP
BOOSTBOX = 150 HP

Stock Scion xB = 89 WHP
BOOSTBOX = 120 WHP

Where is there only 12 more HP? And this is not tuned either........

I think he's thinking about the bad run but over the crank #s (shrug) :cool1:

[Retro Style]

:pilot: I want to go faster, but faster requires more $$$$....

[cz3ch]

:pilot: I want to go faster, but faster requires more $$$$....

Yeah you get to a threshold where you're like.. WTF am I doing with this thing? You have to keep it in perspective bigtime....Otherwise you'll end up spending all this money to make your box go fast when you could have bought a faster car to begin with.... The real trick is making your car "yours" and unique!

That's what it's all about in my opinion...