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View Full Version : Scikotics Supercharger Owners Looking To Up The Ante



Karl
10-05-2006, 03:18 PM
Edit:6 Oct 2006 - Added Fuel Delivery section.

Ok, so you have this supercharger in your car. And you've PROBABLY read that the Supercharger "sucks" compared to a turbo kit. Well, I'm here to tell you that's simply not true. While Superchargers are similar to Turbos in the fact that a larger supercharger kit is required for more boost (just like turbos have similar limits), the way they deliver power has a very tangible advantage. The linear nature of a supercharger is great for taking your opponent off the line, and if you do a few things to keep the air flowing, you can put a lot of turbo'd cars to shame :)

Here's a few topics of interest that I've run into with tuning my TRD Supercharged tC:

1. Heat soak from your intake

There's plenty of sources for heat soak. Superchargers HATE heat soak. While nice and flashy, metal intakes will heat soak, so don't do it. The 5whp gain you see on dynos with these intakes can be BEATEN by doing a couple of simple things with the stock airbox. For instance, open your stock airbox. Take the top shroud that has the carbon post-filter installed, and REMOVE the carbon element. Then swap your paper filter for a K&N and replace the carbon filter frame (that no longer has a filter). This actually netted me a very noticeable gain on the Butt Dyno(TM) There is an appropriate sized part for the TRD SC's airbox filter. While I don't have it on the top of my head, I'll follow up with a part number.

2. Heat soak from your exhaust

Yes, once again, flashy stainless steel headers look terrific - but they'll heat-soak your engine bay as well. At a bare minimum get some header wrap or one of those nifty new header "jackets" that attach with velcro and can be removed for shows. You want those hot EGT's to be as far down the pipe as possible and OUT of the engine bay. If you want to do it right, get the best Jet-Hot level you can afford. You'll have to send your headers out to them, but you will get a quality inside-and-out coating that will work wonders for keeping that heat out of your engine bay.

3. Belt Issues

I have experimented with a lot of different belts out there. When upping the boost, BELT SLIPPAGE IS ALWAYS A PROBLEM with certain belts. Here's the general rule of thumb - ALWAYS use a belt with a "solid" design (i.e. the 7 ribs of the serpentine are straight through and don't look like "dotted lines" like Dayco/Davis belts or Good year
Gatorbacks). The more boost & supporting mods, the more risk of slippage. The less rubber on the belt in the form of those "incomplete" ribs, the less contact with your pulleys, and the more chances of slippage - and so on and so on. GET A GATES BELT. THEY ARE ALL STRAIGHT THROUGH BELTS and don't do any of that silly "gatorback" stuff to cut costs. If you compare a Gates belt to another aftermarket belt, the difference in quality is simply amazing.

Recommended lengths and part numbers:

NST 12lb pulley: 7PK2234, aka Gates K070880, effective INSIDE length, 2235mm. The Gates K07882 may also work at a 2242mm inner circumference, but try to get the K070880 if at all possible, especially if you have the 20% alternator overdrive pulley. NOTE: Do NOT use the 12lb pulley with the TRD A/F map. You will run very lean and do some very real damage to your motor. You must use engine management to use this pulley. Also, make sure you upgrade your injectors. the 410's that come with the TRD kit are NOT enough to hit 300whp, and you will lean out!

NST 9.5lb pulley: 7pk2250 (K070882) or 7pk2260 (K070886) - both will work, however opt for the SMALLER one if you have a 20% Alternator Overdrive pulley.

4. Bypass Valves/Diverter Valves

The stock Bosch Bypass valve poops out at around 7psi. That's pretty much the most it will hold. The Bosch Sport 110 is better, but is only good for 10lb max - and at 9.5lb you're stressing it. You are absolutely at the upper limit that the 110 can handle. What you really want is the Forge 007. Yeah yeah yeah, it's a little over $100, but you will at least have the FLEXIBILITY to boost far higher than you are - even if you do another FI setup that benefits from a recirculation valve. Some people have even bought the HKS SSQV Bypass Valve with the Recirculation kit. This will work too, but is completely overkill for our applications.

5. Engine Management

When your supercharger is installed, you are changing out the fuel injectors for larger ones. This means the ECU has to be more conservative when pumping fuel through your rails. To facilitate this, they reflash your ECU with one that has a new Air/Fuel map supplied by TRD.

The TRD Air/Fuel map is absolutely horrible and is the biggest source of power loss in this package.

You want to get off this map as soon as you can. The easiest way to do this is to get a Greddy E-manage Ultimate and a Plug n' play harness which can be purchased from Dezod, then heading over to a tuning shop that has a dyno. You will net impressive gains just by correcting the A/F map at WOT.

That being said, do NOT attempt to run your SC with the stock fuel map. If you don't do the reflash, your injectors will be spraying gas like mad, making your car run very rich - meaning really poor mileage and a pretty fair amount of black smoke coming out of your exhaust. While the TRD map sucks for a lot of different reasons, it's still better than the STOCK map after you've upgraded the injectors.

6. Intercooling

Vortech Superchargers don't benefit much from front mounted intercoolers, or any other type of intercooler that adds additional plumbing. Additional plumbing means boost loss, and Vortech SC's hate boost loss. If you want the best option for intercooling our setups, the best way to do it is by doing Chemical intercooling via water/meth injection.

How it works is fairly simple. A pump is plumbed to your existing Washer fluid resevoir (which holds just around a full gallon). The pump is turned on and off via a controller that is T-Tapped into the vaccum hose that runs between the throttle body and the bypass valve - just like a boost gauge would be. You select a "minimum" boost that begins spraying your water/meth mixture. You also select a boost level where you require "maximum" spray volume (so far, you only need FULL spray at over 12lb, so this isn't much of a concern to us).

As you boost, when you hit your lower limit, the pump sprays water and methanol into your intake stream. The spray is a very very fine atomized mist that has two effects. First, the water cools the intake air, and most of it evaporates before it hits the combustion chamber. Secondly, methanol is a very slow burning alcohol which adds additional octane. This octane increase allows you to run higher boost levels since increased octane means less chance for pre-detonation to occur.

Until someone proves differently, it appears that water/meth injection is the only real intercooling we will need until someone makes a larger Supercharger fit kit for our cars :)

7. Cams

Well, it finally happened. RippMods is making cam regrinds for the Scion tC equipped with the TRD Supercharger. They free up additional power by adding increased lift and duration on the exhaust side of your valves. I tested the initial RippMods cam regrind for the TRD-powered TC and the results were impressive considering the other issues I had at the time. With major belt slippage and a leaky bypass valve limiting me to 6lb of boost, I was still able to hit 250whp with these cams. With new injectors, a new tune and a 12lb pulley (11lb effective), RippMods cams took my car to 311whp.

Just to note - since turbos benefit more from overlap (the duration where both your intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time), these cams will likely not offer a significant gain for turbocharged tC's - so don't bother rushing out to buy them unless you are SUPERCHARGED.

8. Fuel Delivery

You've added your 12lb pulley. You've slapped in a nice, thick Gates belt. You've got your Meth injection in. You've done your baseline tuning on your Greddy Emanage Ultimate. Your internals are STILL holding up.... but guess what?

Even with a decent tune, you're gonna lean out in your upper RPMs. What I've learned so far is that adding a larger fuel pump (like a Walbro 255lph) isn't enough - in fact, chances are it's not even going to be necessary. However you HAVE to increase your injector size. 550cc Injectors are the order of the day and will even work with your TRD updated fuel rail. What you want are the 550cc injectors made by www.deatschwerks.com (thanks to zer0 from SL, one of the few quality people left there). They are the same guys who make 'em for "ZPI", that crapbag shady company I can't stand. Get 'em from the source. At last check, $360 gets you a whole set shipped.

9. Other issues

There's currently a bracket breakage issue with the supercharger. The origin of this issue is still unknown. TRD is currently blaming "technician error" for these breakages, but the manual makes this portion of the installation unclear anyway. We're still waiting for this mess to pan out, but be aware you COULD break a mount even with a stock configuration. While this mount breaking isn't going to affect your daily driving, I'd take it easy until you can get it swapped. Images to a broken mount example are here (http://www.weckstrom.com/scion/brokenmount2.jpg) and here (http://www.weckstrom.com/scion/brokenmount1.jpg).

There's also a seal failure that's causing issues on a far fewer amount of SC's out there. The big problem here is that there doesn't appear to be a part number listed anywhere for these seals. You know you have this issue if you are leaking oil from your supercharger right around where the impeller pulley shaft meets the impeller bell housing itself. If you're leaking oil from that spot, it's a very bad thing and you'll want to hit up your Stealership right away for a replacement. At this time, there's no part number for just replacing the seals - you MUST replace the entire supercharger until a solution can be found.

I'll keep this post updated as I learn more about dealing with TRD's kit :)

Greenfire
10-05-2006, 07:27 PM
Before I even take the the time to study all of this, I want to be the first to thank you for posting this up in one great summary!

whatmovesu
10-05-2006, 07:39 PM
:bow: I can't say how great a write up this is :bow:

Karl
10-05-2006, 11:04 PM
Scikotics only :) I won't share.

I spent a lot of time (and money) doing trial-and-error. My loss is your gain :)

EddNog
10-05-2006, 11:12 PM
Karl's been through more than his fair share of headaches with the process of suping-up the supercharger, so if anyone's the right person who do this, it's Karl.

Props to the man!

-Ed

HAVOKtC
10-10-2006, 07:02 PM
thank you very much for the info.

out of curiosity, have you done any internal work?

Krdshrk
10-11-2006, 12:51 AM
He's running stock internals

sarsippius
10-11-2006, 01:19 AM
I would like to check it out one day Karl, plus meet you. heard about you from the guys. want my dash lights changed...

Karl
10-11-2006, 08:17 AM
I would like to check it out one day Karl, plus meet you. heard about you from the guys. want my dash lights changed...

Sure! Come on by! :)

Krdshrk
10-11-2006, 10:57 AM
Oh yeah - you have yet to meet Karl. I didn't know that. Man - you gotta come around more often, Oscar!

FrankenScion
10-11-2006, 11:02 AM
Wow, I read the whole thing just cause it was so informative and well written. And I have no intentions of buying a SC or a tC......lol.

Thanks Karl, thats awesome!

Krdshrk
10-11-2006, 11:06 AM
Scikotics NJ is becoming the fastest chapter... 2x superchargers, a couple periphery members with turbos... etc :D

FrankenScion
10-11-2006, 11:10 AM
I don't know man, the Phoenix chapter has a few turboed as does the Nasville chapter.

Maybe we need to have a Scikotic Nationals Drag Racing event.......lol.

Krdshrk
10-11-2006, 11:28 AM
Next Asylum we need to see if we can setup some sort of race thing...

FrankenScion
10-11-2006, 11:35 AM
That might just work. :ponder:

whatmovesu
10-11-2006, 01:00 PM
Oh yeah :bow:

sarsippius
10-11-2006, 03:59 PM
Oh yeah - you have yet to meet Karl. I didn't know that. Man - you gotta come around more often, Oscar!I really do! Next meet! Life so busy at this point.

Nateee
10-11-2006, 04:04 PM
i was thinking of getting a s/c for my xa...but i dont know

Karl
10-16-2006, 07:34 PM
My latest Supercharger tune :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyp4-RYiW64

FrankenScion
10-16-2006, 07:38 PM
Stickied!

skatg2k3
11-02-2006, 06:06 PM
1st: Karl, you are a :censored: genious

2nd: I hope to have some FI love by early next year, so NJ can get just a little quicker!

Krdshrk
11-02-2006, 09:51 PM
We got 2 if not 3 SC'd tC's, if I can get Ronnie on here tomorrow, we'll have a Turboed tC... I'll be going F/I soon.... Eric will be going F/I soon... ooh baby!

skatg2k3
11-02-2006, 09:54 PM
alright baby! so who will go turbo first nick, you or me? its a race to the finish! :twisted:

Krdshrk
11-02-2006, 09:55 PM
Yo I got this credit card ready and waiting for it... hahaha.

45CaliberBSP
11-07-2006, 05:21 PM
awesome post! thanks for all the info man!!

gammatnt
08-24-2007, 03:18 AM
great info. Karl did my tc's led. He is a great guy.
Now i have to get my dc header some heat warp.

gammatnt
10-09-2007, 03:06 AM
I finally wrap my dc header and install the NST S/C pulley.
When my first try to turn the pulley bolt. The pulley was turning too.
I removed the stock pulley with strap wrench with some Sand paper inside. I folded the sand paper so the rough part is on both side. My buddy wrap it around the pulley very tight. and it holds!!!

Took me 3 tries. Glad it come off on the last try, because i almost give up. If you didn't get it grip the first time. Just keep trying,

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a156/gammatnt/car%20stuff2/IMG_0590.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a156/gammatnt/car%20stuff2/IMG_0592.jpg

I feel the car pull faster now. The pulley was the best mod for the buck.

JDub86
10-09-2007, 11:26 PM
Are you able to just upgrade the pulley if you want to? I would assume it would void the warranty if you changed the pulley.

I want to get the S/C for my tC and some point while owning it. You posted up a lot of good info. Thank you.

Krdshrk
10-10-2007, 02:50 PM
You can upgrade the pulley fairly easily with the S/C for the '05-06 tC.

With the '07 & Up they changed the bolt to a tamper-proof bolt that is MUCH harder to remove.

gammatnt
10-10-2007, 08:25 PM
i am glad i got a 06 tc, Able to change pulley , and it is on sale.

Krdshrk
10-10-2007, 08:47 PM
Yeah but you gotta hurry up and buy one now before they're all sold out.

gotDAMD
11-30-2007, 11:40 PM
I'm getting this set up from another Louisiana member for $1000 installed.

TRD Vortex Supercharger =1000 (intsalled with the upgrades)
Hyperboost Blow-off Valve = willing to swap for the oem and a few bucks
NST Supercharger Pulley (9.5 psi) =
Goodyear Gatorback Belt =
Weapon R Supercharger Intake and Filter =

Never seriously thought about going F/I until he mentioned how much he was selling it for. He's tradeing in his tc for a fj crusier.

HammeredRooster
12-03-2007, 11:58 AM
wow, do stealerships do layaway for the supercharger?

gammatnt
12-13-2007, 07:07 AM
don't use K070886 belt if you getting 9.5 nst pulley. It is too short. It will not work. I am getting the K070890 belt from NST.com

triniosito
01-12-2008, 06:28 AM
Nice info Very informative

goodguy889
02-18-2008, 01:34 PM
so does anyone know the K&N filter number to replace to stock.

Krdshrk
02-18-2008, 01:55 PM
K&N Air Filter #33-2300

gotDAMD
03-11-2008, 11:35 PM
What spark plugs are the best to use for s/c and what do you gap them?

goodguy889
03-12-2008, 02:57 PM
also i tried the gates k070890 belt and it was to small. is there a different belt size fron the 06 to the 08.

goodguy889
03-12-2008, 03:07 PM
ok so i just checked with scion and the belt size is different for the 08 supercharger. dont have the size but will post when i find out.

goodguy889
03-12-2008, 05:46 PM
for 07 and 08 the gates belt number is Gates Belt K070905

djshway
11-19-2008, 10:50 AM
This is making me want to put a s/c in my tC.... -_- at least if i get the trd one, anything happens i can bring it back to the stealership and say, "ey mang.... WtEF is wrong with this" lol they will probably try and blame it on something else.... -_-

rideordie1percent
01-11-2009, 02:36 AM
awesome post and I couldn't agree with you more on ZPI I was blowing the whistle on them back when they first hit the scene.

Stryker Trailwood
01-11-2009, 12:22 PM
This is making me want to put a s/c in my tC.... -_- at least if i get the trd one, anything happens i can bring it back to the stealership and say, "ey mang.... WtEF is wrong with this" lol they will probably try and blame it on something else.... -_-

hey man, get it installed at TOI through jimmy. i haven't had any problems with getting mine serviced.

Nakura17
01-28-2009, 10:10 PM
Amazing summary, helped a lot with understanding.

BoostMeiji
03-24-2009, 12:26 AM
I love my supercharger.

gammatnt
04-20-2009, 12:07 AM
This is making me want to put a s/c in my tC.... -_- at least if i get the trd one, anything happens i can bring it back to the stealership and say, "ey mang.... WtEF is wrong with this" lol they will probably try and blame it on something else.... -_-

They blamed on my dc header. :deadhorse:

Pampito
04-23-2009, 10:29 PM
Does it matter which bypass valve u use---> HKS Racing Bypass Valve or HKS Standard Bypass Valve

Would it matter to use it even though it states 12-18psi on the S/C with only 9.5 psi?

ApplicationValve Only
Part No.17670-006100
PSI12~18http://www.hksusa.com/images/spacer.gif

BoostMeiji
05-12-2009, 02:31 AM
^^^ not sure bout HKS.

Buy an APR R1 Diverter Valve. Works perfect! I Noticed a difference in power immediately (w/7lb pulley). Diaphragm design is much better than piston. Maintenance free. Performance is always consistent. Lifetime warranty. Sounds great. Just ask the Audi owners.

goodguy889
05-12-2009, 06:13 PM
i love my turbo xs bov
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/l_6eb4e1a69c6e4a11a7405cef69dd7395.jpg

BoostMeiji
05-17-2009, 01:40 AM
^^^ Nice set up bro... however, it would behoove you to wrap that header dude. Trust me, the heat of an unwrapped aftermarket header (or complacent heat shield) can easily warp your supercharger shaft over time causing total destruction of your s/c. Food for thought.

goodguy889
05-19-2009, 08:15 PM
thanks bro but with the new aftermarket shaft that i baught its a lot i mean a lot stronger then stock and i dont have to worrie about that problem. but like i said thatnks again. my first aftermarket header i wrapped and it did keep the heat out but i like the looks of it unwrapped with this new header

Tweek29
06-13-2009, 05:25 PM
What about tranny? Did you upgrade there to support the power gain... or are you still pushin the stock?

Reyboricua
07-03-2009, 05:47 AM
ok i have an xb not a tc i would like to make my xb go faster will the trd supercharger work on my xb or would it just not fit.....and be my biggest waste in money and time/...

goodguy889
07-03-2009, 03:05 PM
out of my own exp. i would so turbo. first trd stop making them for a reason. i mean u buy a s/c then spend another grand just on upgraded bearings and shaft so it wont break on ya, then if u want more faster u have to go smaller pulley and tune (depending on how small of pulley) and yet the most ur gonna get is no more then 300. when i can buy a turbo kit and tune it and pull 300+ with less money. and this is coming from a guy on his 3rd s/c. if i could i would get rid of the crap and go turbo for more hp

Pampito
07-14-2009, 12:41 PM
Does anyone have an 07+ tC where they swapped out the pullies, mainly the S/C pulley. was it a pain to it done? and i was told to weld a nut to the bolt since its the tamper proof. But if so could you post pics plz thnks

goodguy889
10-02-2009, 06:04 PM
new hks bov and LOVE IT!!!!!
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/car1-1.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/car-1.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/car2-1.jpg

goodguy889
10-02-2009, 06:12 PM
Does anyone have an 07+ tC where they swapped out the pullies, mainly the S/C pulley. was it a pain to it done? and i was told to weld a nut to the bolt since its the tamper proof. But if so could you post pics plz thnks

u dont have to weld but it is a way lol. i cut 2 sides and left a middle and was able to take a wrench to it.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/IMG_4922-1.jpg
then buy this bolt
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/IMG_2090.jpg
p.s. when u take it off with the wrench leave the belt on. so much easier with it on

Pampito
10-04-2009, 08:17 AM
new hks bov and LOVE IT!!!!!
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/car1-1.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/car-1.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/car2-1.jpg


Nice i still havent bought the BOV, where did u get urs from? did it take long to arrive?

And the pullies i finally got them on, we jus drilled out the center piece completely LOL!!

Pampito
10-04-2009, 08:20 AM
ill take better pics l8r

goodguy889
10-04-2009, 01:45 PM
got it on ebay and it only took like 4 days to arrive

06silvertc
10-04-2009, 03:14 PM
new hks bov and LOVE IT!!!!!
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/car1-1.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/car-1.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/car2-1.jpg
how does it sound? cause i have the same BOV on my other car and its extremly loud and changes sounds if i remove the air filter off.

Pampito
10-12-2009, 03:13 PM
Hey Mathew when u bought ur BOV did it come with the pipe 2 attach it 2 or did u have to order it seperately? If so could u tell me the pipe u got plz thnx
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/goodguy889/car2-1.jpg

SatsumaXa
04-14-2010, 06:15 AM
Question for Karl and everyone else: just don't laugh too much!!haha
Was this vid a joke or is this possible.....?
http://www.streetfire.net/video/leaf-blower-bolt-on-dyno-pull_7514.htm

Hotrod
09-13-2010, 06:00 PM
What oil does a Blitz Supercharger for a Scion xA (1nz-fe) motor use?

Hotrod
09-15-2010, 09:15 PM
nevermind, I found the answer on Yarisworld

GM Supercharger Oil

NFSP TC
01-11-2011, 09:20 PM
Thats a really nice write up however all those mods are worthless when the internal shaft seals blow once a year. Ok Im bitter because I went through a few superchargers but I have to say, When they run, they run good.