engine managment system

[07Azuresciontc]

im going the turbocharged route and i need advice on a piggyback engine managment system, i dont want the greddy cause i heard it will lose its tune, im looking for one that wont do that any help is greatly appreciated

[trrbo_tc]

AEM FI/C AN AMAZING PIGGYBACK !

GET IT !

i have ran the greddy blue, the greddy ultimate and to me nothing works better then the FI/C

[07Azuresciontc]

the fi/c is all i need, its gonna be a small turbo, runnig about 8psi, and does it lose its tune?

[2dot4]

it's not that it loses it's tune, it's that the ECU adjusts. All piggybacks intercept information from sensors in the engine, and "trick" the ECU. The ECU adapts, and starts making it's own changes (attempting to maintain the stock 14:1 afr), resulting in slight changes that throw off the tune slightly.

The tune doesn't change - the ECU does, so things start to alter. All piggybacks will do it on the tC. To fix the problem, buy a hydra standalone

[07Azuresciontc]

well its not that much, 1700 isnt bad i would deffinatly pay for it if the tune isnt gonna change

[trrbo_tc]

bah .. you just need to get retuned ever 4 - 6 months ..

no biggie.. ive been running for a few months now on the same tune and my tune hasnt changed at all ..

[07Azuresciontc]

well that maybe my only choice to go with the emanage i dont know if any shps around here can tune a hydra

[kris5597]

shit does anyone even know where i can get a tune around the louisiana area? gotta be some place. think ima start a thread about that.

[2dot4]

Take a trip over to Houston, TX and get tuned by Turbochargers.com - they're at hwy 290 and Pinemont.

[kris5597]

yea that could work i got there card. but long drive with no tune would that be a bad idea?

[2dot4]

yea that could work i got there card. but long drive with no tune would that be a bad idea?

not if your running low boost. I made it 10 months without a tune, and my turbo blew out before anything went wrong with my engine.

[kris5597]

lol yea good point and i dont think no tune will make your turbo blow out

[Binder86]

Take a trip over to Houston, TX and get tuned by Turbochargers.com - they're at hwy 290 and Pinemont.

I wouldnt do that if i were you. Im in a midst of a lawsuit with them (Kenny Strickler) for messing with my car and doing stuff they werent asked to do (fraud type shit).

[Krdshrk]

Just find a good local tuner... Don't drive all that way..

Highway driving is fine since you're in Vaccuum anyway though.

[kris5597]

how do cars run without tunes? do they sputter when in boost, do they have the hp at least with the turbo on just without the tune of air and fuel ratio and do they get really bad gas mileage?

[Krdshrk]

Depends... With a base tune, you'll run very rich - so you don't lean out the Air/Fuel mixture and blow up the engine. So you won't get the optimal HP, and your gas mileage will be bad...

[JoshCrane1]

well that maybe my only choice to go with the emanage i dont know if any shps around here can tune a hydra
y dont u just buy paul's(tronic) ultimate? it comes with harness and everything, and its cheaper than the aem f/ic with harness.

[kris5597]

yea i hear ya. will it be smoking and what not? so it will run rich and smoke and not as much power as it will have when it is tuned.

[Krdshrk]

It shouldn't smoke...

[2dot4]

on 7psi the car runs fine without a tune...you're just not going to see peak numbers, and your idle is gonna suck, but it's not gonna hurt the car.

like I said - 10 months without a tune, and now that I'm back to stock, you can't even tell anything changed. Car runs beautifully again! So no harm done.

[07Azuresciontc]

y dont u just buy paul's(tronic) ultimate? it comes with harness and everything, and its cheaper than the aem f/ic with harness.

its sold already plus im at least a year away from going boosted

[trrbo_tc]

why a year ?

[2dot4]

because when you rush into it, you end up untuned for 10 months and get a blown turbo, then you're back to stock within a year.

I support patience when it comes to boost. lol

[fightinsk8ers]

why a year ?
cuz not everyone has money to go out and buy a turbo kit.......if that was the case everyone would be boosted

[08falcon_tC]

just curious, what does your average 6 month tune run you $?

[07Azuresciontc]

exactly im not gonna rush into it and end up blowing my motor i wnat to know as much as posible, find out the dangers, the costs and other things associated with going boosted

[2dot4]

just curious, what does your average 6 month tune run you $?

base tune is usually about $200 - full tune with timing, fuel, and air to reach peak power usuallys runs closer to $600...depending on where you go.

I couldn't find a place that would do it - some people are fucking worthless.

[08falcon_tC]

so about 1200 per year? holy crap. I really want a turbo but 1200 a year in just tuning is alot. I know that there are unforscene expenses that you need to save for when you buy a turbo but thats alot.

[2dot4]

Like I said - the piggyback doesn't lose it's tune - the ECU is what changes.

you don't have to retune the piggyback, just reset your ECU every so often. Problem solved.

Disconnect the Battery for 5 minutes, reconnect it, then turn the car on and let it run without touching anything - don't touch the steering wheel, gas, brake, anything, and let the car run for 15 minutes. The ECU will be back to it's default settings, and you've got a "fresh tune."

[THansenite]

base tune is usually about $200 - full tune with timing, fuel, and air to reach peak power usuallys runs closer to $600...depending on where you go.

I couldn't find a place that would do it - some people are fucking worthless.

Or you can just buy a book about tuning EMS's for $35, read it cover to cover a few times, and do it yourself. That is what I am doing. You learn a lot more about your car that way and if there are problems, I can fix them myself instead of having to call up my tuner. As long as you are careful and make small changes, it isn't that hard to tune a car.

[Krdshrk]

... I haven't retuned my car at all.. I tuned it in about 40 degree weather and there was some leeway put in so it would run fine in hot or cold weather...

[kris5597]

yea id like to teach myself how to tune cars could be a lil extra money on the side for around here or something but mostly for my own benefit. but yea my car is weird. i unplug my battery and plug it back in and try to drive my car it runs and drives like shit. i rev it up and it comes down then goes back up on its own about twice after i do that to about 2500 rpm. now i figured it was because it wasnt warmed up but even when it was warmed up it still did. it drove it a few times and finally it quit acting up. only does it when i reset my ecu. like i said its a crack head. any advice? now i didnt try just cranking it up and waiting about 15min before i drove could that be the dif or what?

[2dot4]

yeah, you gotta run your car and let your ECU figure out the conditions, then store the information. If you just reset it and start driving, the ecu is just gonna dump fuel in and you're gonna run rich, which makes the car drive like shit. Let it run without touching anything, and the car should drive fine after 15 minutes.

rpm spikes like that are usually caused by vacuum leaks.

[2dot4]

decent tuning resource - lots of info in this book about tuning standalones also.

http://www.amazon.com/Modify-Management-Systems-Motorbooks-Workshop/dp/0760315825/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206977878&sr=8-1

Cheap - from like $15 to $20-something.

[THansenite]

decent tuning resource - lots of info in this book about tuning standalones also.

http://www.amazon.com/Modify-Management-Systems-Motorbooks-Workshop/dp/0760315825/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206977878&sr=8-1

Cheap - from like $15 to $20-something.

That's the book I got. It is my bible. I learned so much from reading that book. It teaches you the concepts you need to understand to comprehend WHY you need to adjust the air/fuel mistures and WHY you need to adjust timing. You understand how everything works together so that you can build your own maps.

[kris5597]

thats kool might have to check into that. prob order it myself. and as for the reset ecu thing. ill def do that next time. yea i think it was doing that because the lil hose that attaches to the back of the engine from the manifold was a lil loose come to think of it. prob gonna have to get a new clip or something cause the oem one doesnt seem to hold too good. felt kinda loose when i pulled over and checked it out. completely forgot about that. gonna have to fix that lil shit. well at least i know about that now. well anyways back to ems. getting a piggyback and tuning a n/a will give it a descent amount of power huh?

[2dot4]

you can see 5-10whp by tuning the stock curve. the afrs get rich at high rpms (for safety). You can pull em back a little and lean em out safely to make some extra power.

[trrbo_tc]

just curious, what does your average 6 month tune run you $?

costs me only 325 bucks.

and my tuner is the highest recommended tuner by dezod and many other speed shops that do installations.

Church's FTW !

[trrbo_tc]

yeah, you gotta run your car and let your ECU figure out the conditions, then store the information. If you just reset it and start driving, the ecu is just gonna dump fuel in and you're gonna run rich, which makes the car drive like shit. Let it run without touching anything, and the car should drive fine after 15 minutes.

rpm spikes like that are usually caused by vacuum leaks.

dude ... my car does this ALOT.

rpm's are ALWAYS spiking up and down at idle .. 1,000 - 400 - 1,000 450 up and down and up and down ..

eventually the car if left on idle for too long it just dies because the rpm will go too far down to keep itself running.

i cant figure out the problem .. do you guys have any ideas ?

[2dot4]

whoever tuned your car fugged up - they need to tune your ignition timing at idle and for deceleration. If you get it tuned right, the problem goes away....or check all your vacuum lines - make sure your BOV and boost gauge lines aren't leaking - that's the number one cause of jumpy idle.

[kris5597]

also check that line from the back of the motor to the manifold at the top to make sure its got a good connection or a bad hose with a leak. because as soon as u disconnect that hose your engine cuts off. so that could be another prob as well.

[revvintc]

Hey man I can save you a few miles off driving to Texas there is a tune shop that I found here in Pearl Mississippi its called performance motorsports. Full test and tune wide band w/ one hour limit $125.00 first hour then its $85.00 each hour after. I think their good I went by there they had two Supra's putting just over 500 whp down had a couple Civic's and a Evo when I went by there. Anyway they said all they use is AEM, Hope this helps

[kris5597]

thats awesome i think when i go turbo ima go there. def closer than texas.

[turbors3]

where can you buy a hydra standalone for a tc ??