Got something I'm worried about...

[Stu_Gotti]

Ok, over the last few days, and a handful of times before, my tC cuts off when I'm either depressing the clutch to go in first or when I'm down shifting from lets say 3rd to 2nd... it'll cut off and I'll have to restart it...

Does anyone know what the hell that could be? Electrical issue?

[2dot4]

what mods do you have?

that happened on my turbo a lot - it was a timing problem, and my engine ran too rich when I let off the throttle, so it died whenever I pressed in the clutch and let the rpms drop.

[JoshCrane1]

be more specific, are you revmatching or low rpm downshifting? is the engine stalling or is the whole car dying? what exactly happens before and during the problem?:icon_yu:

[Stu_Gotti]

Bare with me, I'm not known for my technical lingo or abilities haha!

Pretty much everything but boost for mods go, bolt-ons, flywheel, clutch, etc.

It's just dying, not really stalling... almost like it just flipped a switch and cut off...

Ok, when I sit idle, I can depress the clutch and watch the RPM needle fluctuate and drop to lower RPM's...

Sorry I cant really be much more specific... Just is odd to me and gots me a lil worried... AGAIN! Car is always finding a way to piss me off!

[Stu_Gotti]

When I'm downshifting, coming to a stop or what have you, I'll press the clutch, shift into 2nd, and before I can let off the clutch, it dies on me...

I'll have to turn the key again to start it up [mind you my power steering is not on at this point and becomes a safety concern when cruising] to get the car moving again and steering again...

:rifle: My tC!

[JoshCrane1]

do you have an occasional rough idle, cuz maybe you might have clogged fuel prob. but you say its more like a dying prob than a stalling prob.. so hmmm...:crutch:

also check your battery connections and ingnition connections, could be a silly prob. like a loose wire coming loose intermittent.

[Stu_Gotti]

It idles rough too...

I'm not so sure its a fuel problem, especially since it seems to start dying when I simply press the clutch in at idle... I dont "think" thats related to the fuel, correct me if I'm wrong though.

I just replaced the sparks, cleaned the MAF and filter... I'm sure the fuel system at 108K miles could use some work, which is why I'm hoping its something minor like a fuel system being clogged some, but who knows...

My hunch is something electrical somehow.

[Stu_Gotti]

I know the battery connection is good, I'll check the other though too.

[vettereddie]

I have a spare set of tC injectors if you want to throw them in to test.

[Stu_Gotti]

Always worth a shot I suppose... :mrb:

[jdm_iftc]

u might want to check ur main relay. that could be it. im just throwing it out there!!!

[mengsta]

Wait you cleaned your maf? Did you use that CRC maf cleaner? Homie of mine used that on his bmw maf and it gave him a rough idle the second he started the car again. and it would die at times at a stop. Though his is auto, i wouldnt know what to say about it dieing with clutch in. Do you kno if this started to happen right after u cleaned the MAF? if so den duh thats the problem, new maf here we go.. hehe

[Stu_Gotti]

This problem had happend before I cleaned my MAF, so I doubt that is the cause, but always a possibility...

I just dropped it off at Aamco tranny's for this guy Chuck to take a look and see if he can figure it out.. hopefully its something small, because God damn if I have to keep doing this shit, I'm just going to get rid of the God damn thing and be done with Scion all together... shits pissing me off that every God damn time I turn around something else is fucking up on my car!

Sorry... I just am very pissed and stressed out now! I need a shot!

:cry:

[2dot4]

so if you're sitting at a light in neutral with your foot off the clutch, the car is fine...as soon as you push in the clutch it dies?

Man, that beats the hell outta me. The only things I know that can kill your car at idle like that is rich afr, maf fouling or bypass, and vacuum blockage.

there's no breeching of the intake (i.e. pcv hose fell off, coupler slipped off, etc)? no weird noises from the tranny? does your idle do anything else like jump real high, then settle and die? If that's the case, it sounds like a vacuum problem. Hell, it could even be as simple as a fouled sensor.

If the car dies when you're in gear and push in the clutch, it could be a failing pressure plate that's not completely disengaging your clutch. You said you have an aftermarket clutch kit, right?

[Binder86]

This problem had happend before I cleaned my MAF, so I doubt that is the cause, but always a possibility...

I just dropped it off at Aamco tranny's for this guy Chuck to take a look and see if he can figure it out.. hopefully its something small, because God damn if I have to keep doing this shit, I'm just going to get rid of the God damn thing and be done with Scion all together... shits pissing me off that every God damn time I turn around something else is fucking up on my car!

Sorry... I just am very pissed and stressed out now! I need a shot!

:cry:

I feel ya man. I'm in the same boat with my tc, which is boosted. shit started smoking everywhere (interior, exhaust, out the hood) and the dip stick reeks of gas. Which leads me to think i have a hole in the piston(s) or failed rings.
Getting back to your issue it sounds electrical to me until you brought in the issue with the clutch. I doubt its a relay. Check your connections in the harness of the pcm (right behind the glove box). I'm not sure what could be the issue with the problems going on when the clutch is disengaged, but it could be that your running rich and then it leans out real fast due to the drop in rpms.

[manjambles]

relax stu, this all started when you let mehr with your car that night, and urs is really old

[Joe xtC]

Check all vacuum hoses.

One of mine had a T in it for a vacuum gauge. I got rid of the gauge and thought I clamped the hose back together good enough, but the hose came off. My idle would jump from 300 - 1400rpm and stall...even while driving. I turned my car on and looked under the hood as I thought it was a fuel issue. I noticed the separated hose and put it back together and the idle leveled out like normal.

try resetting the ECU too. Or find someone with a scangauge II and plug it in to check your codes.

[Stu_Gotti]

so if you're sitting at a light in neutral with your foot off the clutch, the car is fine...as soon as you push in the clutch it dies? Yes, exactly it.. and its not every single time, but it dropped the RPM's enough a few times that it just cut out.


Man, that beats the hell outta me. The only things I know that can kill your car at idle like that is rich afr, maf fouling or bypass, and vacuum blockage.

there's no breeching of the intake (i.e. pcv hose fell off, coupler slipped off, etc)? no weird noises from the tranny? does your idle do anything else like jump real high, then settle and die? If that's the case, it sounds like a vacuum problem. Hell, it could even be as simple as a fouled sensor. There were weird noises and a "feel" to it when I was driving to drop it off, so who knows, but I will this afternoon.. hopefully! No jumping during idle though.


If the car dies when you're in gear and push in the clutch, it could be a failing pressure plate that's not completely disengaging your clutch. You said you have an aftermarket clutch kit, right? Yes

[Stu_Gotti]

I feel ya man. I'm in the same boat with my tc, which is boosted. shit started smoking everywhere (interior, exhaust, out the hood) and the dip stick reeks of gas. Which leads me to think i have a hole in the piston(s) or failed rings.
Getting back to your issue it sounds electrical to me until you brought in the issue with the clutch. I doubt its a relay. Check your connections in the harness of the pcm (right behind the glove box). I'm not sure what could be the issue with the problems going on when the clutch is disengaged, but it could be that your running rich and then it leans out real fast due to the drop in rpms.

Yeah, it could be that as well... problem is, it could be a lot of things, just got to have them figure this out, I surely couldn't!

More to follow soon hopefully.

[Stu_Gotti]

relax stu, this all started when you let mehr with your car that night, and urs is really old

Damn women... haha! :5bullwhip:

[Stu_Gotti]

Check all vacuum hoses.

One of mine had a T in it for a vacuum gauge. I got rid of the gauge and thought I clamped the hose back together good enough, but the hose came off. My idle would jump from 300 - 1400rpm and stall...even while driving. I turned my car on and looked under the hood as I thought it was a fuel issue. I noticed the separated hose and put it back together and the idle leveled out like normal.

try resetting the ECU too. Or find someone with a scangauge II and plug it in to check your codes.

I think I'm going to invest in one of those and/or program for my laptop with a USB OBDII sensor so I can run codes in car.

[Binder86]

whatever you do do not reset or reflash the ecu. It can completly F#@$ it up. I would hook up an obdII to it a check if its a pending code or a hard code. I hope you know someone with a brick cuz they are expensive.

[Stu_Gotti]

Well my place I usually go, Aamco, Chuck told me that he thinks its in the tranny so they're going to pull it and see... I think I do have about 15-20K on the clutch that's in there, but I dont know if that's reason enough to be jacked up... He said maybe the throwout bearing, or one of the parts of the clutch is maybe causing it not to release all the way, he just said "it's not disengauging, so it'll have to come out." Guess we'll find out around Monday or so...

No Gotti on the road for at least a week or two, maybe longer... blah!

:censored:

[JoshCrane1]

Well my place I usually go, Aamco, Chuck told me that he thinks its in the tranny so they're going to pull it and see... I think I do have about 15-20K on the clutch that's in there, but I dont know if that's reason enough to be jacked up... He said maybe the throwout bearing, or one of the parts of the clutch is maybe causing it not to release all the way, he just said "it's not disengauging, so it'll have to come out." Guess we'll find out around Monday or so...

No Gotti on the road for at least a week or two, maybe longer... blah!

:censored:
seems suspicious, they charge you the normal $700 tranny removal fee?

[Stu_Gotti]

I dont think they will, but we'll see... I'm going to call him again on Monday, seeing as how they wont have started it yet early, if I can come up with a better idea of what it is, then maybe rethink it...

But I can tell you that when I was driving the car over to the place, my tranny did have an odd feeling to it, like something wasn't right or out of place, broke, something...

So yeah... Hopefully its something simple in there and nothing nutty!


Just talked to Aamco again to get the code read-out... he said he remembers it saying "Idle Air Control" was what the code meant...

Link (http://www.automedia.com/Sensor-Troubleshooting:-Idle-Air-Control-Valve/ccr20010901ic/1)

Did some reading, it looks like this could possibly be why it's stalling... have to check this out too.

What do you think about this though? This was from the last time I had it in, it was stalling and shit, maybe this could be the issue?

[2dot4]

I do have about 15-20K on the clutch that's in there, but I dont know if that's reason enough to be jacked up...

I wouldn't think so - I have 21k miles on mine, and my clutch went through my 5spd training and through a turbo lol, and it drives like it did the day I bought it still.

[Stu_Gotti]

Yeah, true, maybe I just dont know how to drive haha... funk man, I dunno, guess we'll find something out on Monday.

[TcTshaw]

Did you ever find out what this problem was? I so curious sounds so odd.

[Krackerbox]

I tell all you guys what is wroung with your cars, and sorry if i piss anybody off, You are all tearing your engine up because of Turbos, NOS, etc. You start messing around with stuff like that is going 2 F up. The engine was not bulit 2 handle the increase in horsepower. You must remember that they dont make them like they use 2. There very cheap made engine, im not saying you cant run stuff like that on your car, if it is done correctly, but you have 2 keep your foot out of it, cause it just like a hotrod, your always working on it or Fin something up.

[2dot4]

he doesn't have a turbo or nitrous.... just bolt-ons. And stock is boring - I'll take small headaches over a stock tC anyday.

[TcTshaw]

he doesn't have a turbo or nitrous.... just bolt-ons. And stock is boring - I'll take small headaches over a stock tC anyday.
+1 :D

[Joe xtC]

+1 :D
+2

Can someone tell me why my burgers make me laugh? Here is my setup. GD street racers.

Here it is when I bought it
http://www.jeffwerner.ca/images/journal/441001large.jpg
Here is the install day pic of me
http://www.fakejazz.com/images/nos.jpg
Here is the final product
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/11500/11618_w.jpg

My next mod is a sound system

[Stu_Gotti]

Krackerbox - Everyone knows that when you modify cars that things can and most likely will go wrong, especially when dealing with HP modifications...

I'm not here to say that its anyone's fault but my own most likely, I want to learn from this and posting this information up for other owners will provide some insight to issues that arrise from various upgrades and such.

I'm still waiting on the response back from them, but as soon as I hear something, believe me, it'll be posted! I'm curious to see how this will pan out, what caused it, etc.

Updates later.

:wallb:

[Stu_Gotti]

Oh, and Joe, your a goofball haha! :rofl:

[Joe xtC]

thanks.

I dislike people that hate on forced induction. Usually because the people hating on it are people who don't ever use it.

Cars also are like hobbies for some. Over time cars are going to break down and wear down...fact of life. Even something as little as adding subwoofers can create problems for people in their cars. Over working their alternators which is connected to the crank pulley. Drawing power from the battery and disturbing ignition timing which is a nice setup to confuse the ECU and make in impact on engine longevity, fuel economy, and engine power. So the whole....keep it stock routine makes me yawn, but I guess is entertaining to some. Then one would ask, why join a car club if you only enjoy stock brand cars. I guess those are still a success for the delorean's and the old minicoopers, but times have changed.

I'm not trying to be an internet tough guy, I have many locals that know I speak my mind to people face to face... but your post was as much of a waste of bandwidth as my post with the charcoal grill (the reason why I posted it).

[Krackerbox]

thanks.

I dislike people that hate on forced induction. Usually because the people hating on it are people who don't ever use it.

Cars also are like hobbies for some. Over time cars are going to break down and wear down...fact of life. Even something as little as adding subwoofers can create problems for people in their cars. Over working their alternators which is connected to the crank pulley. Drawing power from the battery and disturbing ignition timing which is a nice setup to confuse the ECU and make in impact on engine longevity, fuel economy, and engine power. So the whole....keep it stock routine makes me yawn, but I guess is entertaining to some. Then one would ask, why join a car club if you only enjoy stock brand cars. I guess those are still a success for the delorean's and the old minicoopers, but times have changed.

I'm not trying to be an internet tough guy, I have many locals that know I speak my mind to people face to face... but your post was as much of a waste of bandwidth as my post with the charcoal grill (the reason why I posted it).:thefinger::loser::crybaby2::bs::roll::icon_to ngue::fu: Whatever dude dont start a bunch of drama on here, just cause somebody has a thought, and i dont hate
forced induction, i plan on getting a supercharger myself, if you would of read the post, i said if it was set up correct is ok 2 run that stuff as long as you keep your foot out of it all the time, jezzzz take a chill pill bro....

[Stu_Gotti]

Yeah, forums are here for the sake of learning from others mistakes and such... sadly, haha, I've been the "test dummy" for a lot of issues...

Let's try and keep my post on topic though gang, I'll post some info up here in the next few hours hopefully, then we can all learn from my problem.

:mrv:

[Krackerbox]

Krackerbox - Everyone knows that when you modify cars that things can and most likely will go wrong, especially when dealing with HP modifications...

I'm not here to say that its anyone's fault but my own most likely, I want to learn from this and posting this information up for other owners will provide some insight to issues that arrise from various upgrades and such.

I'm still waiting on the response back from them, but as soon as I hear something, believe me, it'll be posted! I'm curious to see how this will pan out, what caused it, etc.

Updates later.

:wallb: Im not saying you did anything bro your pro your haveing is crazy ive never head of that one before ??, im just saying 90 % of post i read about engine pro is because add ons not done right, thats all im saying....

[Joe xtC]

:thefinger::loser::crybaby2::bs::roll::icon_tongue ::fu: Whatever dude dont start a bunch of drama on here, just cause somebody has a thought, and i dont hate
forced induction, i plan on getting a supercharger myself, if you would of read the post, i said if it was set up correct is ok 2 run that stuff as long as you keep your foot out of it all the time, jezzzz take a chill pill bro....

Ease up there speedy. I had my thought as well and posted on it. Go type some more emoticons somewhere.


Back on topic..... How much is the process of diagnosing the issue costing you?

[Stu_Gotti]

Im not saying you did anything bro your pro your haveing is crazy ive never head of that one before ??, im just saying 90 % of post i read about engine pro is because add ons not done right, thats all im saying....

I know bro, no problems from me, just in general, lets keep this post clean of off-topic chatter or $.02 comments...

I agree, the tune and or installation is key to proper usage.. no doubt!

Again, I'll have info up later.

[Stu_Gotti]

How much is the process of diagnosing the issue costing you?

Not exactly sure yet, I just want one figure, I'm not taking it anywhere else down here other than here, I just dont trust many others around here because they're pretty unintelligent IMO...

Hopefully I can keep this whole thing under $1.5K.

[Stu_Gotti]

:-x



Crankwalk, or "the walking crankshaft", happens when the crankshaft starts moving around its housing. This causes the crankshaft to, at some point or another, wear into the thrust bearing heavily. This will cause the crank to eventually move a plate that will smash into the crank angle sensor, break it, and shut the car down.


If you know how engines work (click here (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/) if you don't and read up as much as you can), then you should know that the only movement the crankshaft should do is its rotational movement in order to move the pistons up and down inside their cylinders. Any slight movement of the crankshaft will cause the connecting rods to move, causing the pistons to move, and not just that, you know (if you know how engine works) that the engine is connected to the transmission via the flywheel and an engaged clutch. This will cause the feeling of the clutch to act odd since the engine is giving play.


So now we know what crankwalk, or "walking crankshaft", is, but what causes it? For reasons that, as Kid Rock says, "Only God knows why", the DSM plant went with off the shelf designs and engineering when producing the 2G engines in particular. Sometimes, the crankshaft themselves weren't built correctly to standard specs. On other engines, the bearings weren't the correct ones. It strongly varies. Since the crankshaft is a bit loose (only a bit, but such a thing shouldn't even be a little bit loose), it will eventually start moving around and causing play, which will lead to harsh problems that will cost alot of money if not attended to immediatly. Something that can contribute to this is using clutch kits that have a very high pedal pressure rate, which are mainly used when building the engines for some extra power.


Reference this site (http://www.car-forums.com/s15/t4460.html).

I'm being told my problem is crankwalk... above explains it if your not familiar with this problem, like me.

Bottom line I'm being told is that I need a new clutch, flywheel and motor? WTF? So here I am, 108K miles on my car, already had a short block replaced because spun bearings caused my cylinder walls to score and it was ticking... Dont know how that problem could play into this one, seeing as how the above information states that bearings could be the result of this problem. It also states that the clutch and flywheel could aide in making my crankwalk happen.

Could you guys give me some info on what your take is? I've attached a few pics, I'm not quite sure what exactly the specs are on the crank as far as play is concerned, but I know there is supposed to be some play in the crank.

Does anyone know a place to locate some of these specs and such?

I'm probably going to have to hand build this bottom end by myself to save some money, because I cannot afford another motor... Hell, I'm not even sure I'd have to replace the entire motor because of this.. but again, your feedback will be helpful. Thanks gang!

Gotti is sucking ass.... AGAIN!

:-x

[Stu_Gotti]

He was telling me that there was some wear on the various parts pictured, I'm not quite sure, but mostly it looked like it would be concidered normal wear on those parts, hopefully someone can see if its something odd looking... I surely cannot.

[Subbieinyoface]

Looks like normal wear and tear but im no mechanic. Told you man the Subbie 13k :D

[Stu_Gotti]

:thefinger: No thanks!

So this is what I'm thinking is going to have to happen regardless of what exactly causes it to fnuck up constantly, It'll be built up by myself and friends who want to give me a hand...

I have a neighbor across from my dad that works for Toyota, I can get a list of parts and hopefully get a GREAT discount [Got my dad's headlight assy. for his Sienna for $400 something instead of $1K+] on all the parts needed to get my bish runnin good again...

Does anyone have some luck I can buy by chance?

:cop: < If it weren't for them, I'd be at the bank right now... haha!

So some of you local guys want to get your hands dirty with me once I get down to it, holla!

Back to the crankwalk though, does anyone think this is a reasonable claim?

[Joe xtC]

go on scionlife and find etsnet. He did a complete engine rebuild. Since he was involved pretty much every step of the way, I believe he could be a huge help to you.

[Stu_Gotti]

w0rd, good looks, I'll do that now...

[Stu_Gotti]

:MDR54:

So tonight I'm hoping that I can pull all the various part numbers I need from the CD Brian "vettereddie" is giving me, then I'll send the list off to this guy, get some #'s to work with, get what I can from him and figure out what and where to get stuff for the rest of the build from. I'm probably going to see if there are upgraded bearings and such for the motor, maybe other internals that'll keep her strong for some time to come. Then I got to figure out who can help me and where I plan on doing this at... I got the hobby shop on base I can see about and I have some buddies that may have the capibilities to do such a job.

In the meantime, I'm going to go scoop the "community" whip from my dad and stepmom, Camry, rock that until I get the tC running again...

Hopefully this whole thing takes about 2 months of research, ordering, tear down and rebuild.

[Subbieinyoface]

You know im down to get dirt dirt dirtayyyy

[Stu_Gotti]

:icon_djsmiley: Figgy-figgy-figgy... vwerd!

I'm going to compile the list tonight and hopefully start pricing stuff out tomorrow...

Got this guy that used to work here, I'm going to see if he knows or has the means to pull the engine once I have Aamco put it back together for me...

[2dot4]

you already have 108,000 miles on your tc? sheezus!

[Stu_Gotti]

Yezzir! 108+ probably closer to 109 now... I get's around haha!

Ok, well Aamco called me after I tried to contact them, I basically told them "seal it back up, I'm going to go ahead and do this myself with the help of others because I cannot afford such a large overhaul through a commercial place." He was like, "well what about your clutch and flywheel?" It appears to be normal wear and tear is what I'm being told and I dont see how it could be that bad, but either way, I told them that I would do it when the time came...

He was like, "umm... well ok... let me call you back, need to figure out what we're going to do."

Umm, what is there to figure out? I want it sealed up, I'll pay for the tear down or whatever, I'll save money and learn this crap myself...

Telling me I need an entire motor, wtf is wrong with people? Dont they know that there is a thing called internet and people have friends who know stuff about cars? Dont you think having a modded tC like mine, I would have friends? Geesh... retards!

Anyways, I got word from a co-worker that he's got all the tools I'll need, lifts, whatever.. so I'm going to coordinate with him and try and setup a time to get this bish taken apart, get some new race bearings [if they make them?] and thrust bearing, clutch and flywheel [if needed for certain] and get this bish back on the road.

[Subbieinyoface]

Sounds like you gay

[Subbieinyoface]

Just kidding sounds like it should be a blast........

[Stu_Gotti]

:moon: Ha! I'm sure it'll be fun... get to see Vince get dirty for once!

[2dot4]

Yezzir! 108+ probably closer to 109 now... I get's around haha!

well theres your problem! lol

I'm assuming (and hoping) you have an 05, and spaced those miles over 3 or 4 years...all that constant driving is going to destroy your motor...especially if it's modded and if you have a lead foot. lol

And isn't the fix for crank walk just a new main bearing? Crank walk is where the bearing wears out and starts to move freely within the bearing and tears it up...right? It's been a while since I studied this shit lol.

[Stu_Gotti]

Eric, your correct sir... I'm going to price some better bearings, hopefully I can find stronger than stock bearings and thrust bearing, new clutch and flywheel if needed, tear it down and replace this crap, hopefully this is in fact what is causing my problem.

Few quick questions, obviously I haven't been in the market for anything internally for the car in a LONG time, is there aftermarket pistons that are forged, stock compression? I think it would be smart of me to just replace some weak points of the engine while its apart so this shit doesn't happen again... Same for crank bearings, there are aftermarket ones correct?

I've got to start shopping around...

:icon_yes:

[Stu_Gotti]

Just so everyone is clear, most of you know I drive the piss out of this car, no denying that... I just want to figure out whats wrong, save money, learn and get this bitch back on the streets.

It's a 2005 with around 109,000 miles, driven daily and driven hard...

[2dot4]

they don't make forged OE pistons - not that I've seen anyway...But you should definitely take pictures, because I want to start tearing down my motor, and if you're already doing it, I'd love to see what I'm getting myself into lol.

As far as bearings, I don't think they make stronger versions, but I could be wrong - I've never looked for em.

One idea...if you have the money...take the crank while it's out of the car up to a machine shop and get it lightened and balanced...that would free up some hp and RPMs, and would take a lot of stress off the bearing... just an idea.

What do you do all day that requires so much driving? lol

[MikeInABox]

Man I hope our motors don't end up like the Mitsu 4G63. They're the ultimate crank walk motors. I'd say it's worth a shot to find specs on how much, if any, play there should be on the crank. Would suck if you tear your whole motor apart and spend the money, when it wasn't bad.

[Stu_Gotti]

Well if they do, I'll find them. I talked to Paul [guy I'm going to be doing the work at his place] said that really all he thinks I'll need is the thrust bearing, which is what is messed up and causing the crankwalk.

But rest assure, I will document EVERY step and have a very detailed and thourough DIY for small block tear down and reassembly...

[Stu_Gotti]

Yeah, well something is causing my car to die when I depress the clutch, I would assume after reading up slightly on it that its a legit claim, but I didn't and couldn't fathom why in the world I'd need an entire motor, unless he was just being a dick and saying that because of all the problems I have? Either way, it'll be good to learn this shit, and teach others if I need too, what I live for!

The mileage though is on there because when I first got the tC, I went everywhere I could to flaunt it haha, then of course I got myself into a situation where I drove over 170 miles round trip daily for almost 7 months. Now its just the combo of work and shows.

[JoshCrane1]

Well if they do, I'll find them. I talked to Paul [guy I'm going to be doing the work at his place] said that really all he thinks I'll need is the thrust bearing, which is what is messed up and causing the crankwalk.

But rest assure, I will document EVERY step and have a very detailed and thourough DIY for small block tear down and reassembly...
PLEASE DO!!!, i will be tearing down my spare block soon and it would be awesome to have step by step instructions. the vmfic(tronic) is just finishing his and made me a lil nervous, so your help would be priceless.

[Stu_Gotti]

:icon_yes: I got ya'll!

Another thing that I dont know if everyone knows exists, the tC shop manual has EVERYTHING that you'll need to tear down and inspect, repair, replace, whatever you need, basically the bible for the tC...

Brian "vettereddie" was able to get me a copy of it on disk, so I'll be using it along with the expertise and experience from Paul to make it happen... I'm going to see about the prices for the gaskets and bearings I'll need in the next day or two... hope I can get this bish started in the next couple weeks.

[TcTshaw]

is it just me or does it sound like ammco was trying to rip you off? If its just the bearing sounds a lot better then a new motor :D Good luck with everything, I am excited to see the step by steps in the next couple of months! looks like everything is turning out a little better for you though, or at least I hope it is.

[Stu_Gotti]

Yeah, I'm not sure their intentions and wont accuse them of that, but I agree, a bearing is much less expensive than a motor haha! Like I said, I dont know if he was saying that because he was being a jackass or was serious, I mean, he did price out the motor for me and such, which made my jaw drop and pretty much made me lose it haha!

It'll all work out, it just sucks to have to continuously go through shit with this car, but I guess its the drivers fault for being so hard on it... Just time to learn this shit on my own.

:icon_yes:

[JoshCrane1]

so how much did shaamco(oops i mean aamco) charge you for that half-ass diagnosis? you said that you knew the guy though soo... hope he aint one of those guys that smile while they shove it up your a$$.

[TcTshaw]

so how much did shaamco charge you for that half-ass diagnosis? you said that you knew the guy though soo... hope it aint one of those guys that smile while they shove it up your a$$.
I wanna know :D

[Stu_Gotti]

Well I dont know if I said it yet or not, but when I followed up with him on the phone the other afternoon, he was very pissed sounding and told me "LARRRY! What do you want to do man?" I told him seal that bitch up, I couldn't afford what your telling me I need done, so I'm going to park her, get the parts I feel I need and fix it myself with the help of friends. He was like, "Umm... alright, well the R&R is going to run you like $500." I said whatever dude, just seal it up! So I'm going to have about 2 or 3 people call and ask them randomly how much it is to inspect the tranny and put it back together, see what they tell them, better match or all hell will break loose. I dont know why he wouldn't try and work with me seeing as how I've done so much other shit there... ya know?

I'll let ya know exactly how much.

I need to see about getting some race bearings or something like that, and figure out the exact part number for the thrust bearing and gasket set I'll need... I should be getting her back today... hopefully it'll drive to my house... if it doesn't, I'm going to see about towing it to that guys house if he has room.

[JoshCrane1]

when you have people check out the r&r, make sure they get a written quote for a FWD car, cuz verbal quote dont mean anything nowadays.

have a feelin he IS a backstabbin shaamco rapist, ive known a lot of mechanics that say "ill hook you up, your a good guy" while they lube it up and TRY to stick it in.


but that price seems legit, i had aamco price me for a RWD car and it was 700, but that was an auto, which is more expensive.

[Stu_Gotti]

Yeah dude, I dont doubt for one minute any person I deal with isn't trying to get over on me, its the nature of the business, they feel as if they can confuse you, they can get'cha! They confused me because hell, I never had to go through something like this before, I mean, the last time I knew it was or thought it was going to be under warranty, so it didn't bother me, but that was only a hope now it would seem.

I'll make sure I get the breakdown and such to check this out, because I know he was trying to get this HUGE job from me, but hell no, I got money but not like that!

[JoshCrane1]

word!

[Joe xtC]

Damn the MAN!

[Stu_Gotti]

Should have it back in the next two days I'm being told, I told them there was no rush since I hadn't ordered the parts or anything yet, but I will be searching for the parts today and hopefully ordering those within the next day or two.

[tCfrk86]

There is a site, ScionParts.com (http://www.scion-parts.com/store.html), that has some tC parts that you may want to look at and they are for people into modding their tC. Hope it works out man.

[Stu_Gotti]

Thanks :mro: I'll check them out now.

Just got off the phone with Aamco, they said it'll run me $518.95 for the teardown, inspection, reassembly and fluids for the car. So I'll be getting it picked up today, driving it [hopefully] to my house until I can get over Paul's house [co-worker helping me] on the 18th-20th.

Bad news for those looking for an entire engine teardown DIY and good news for me, I'm just going to purchase some new bearings, both crank and thrust, high temp sealent, front and rear crank seals and just flip the engine upside down and replace those items, hoping that'll solve my issue. If not, then we're back to square one.

So I'll have a DIY for that portion if you guys would find that useful. :D

[TcTshaw]

Eh I guess its better then nothing, lol just kidding any diy writeup is a good diy writeup, this problem could happen to me and then ill be able to thank you for the writeup. Im really glad everything is working out for you though and its just bearing and not as serious as aamco was making it out to be :).

[Tronic]

This is interesting... I'm hving this problem on my newly built short block (ERL built it). Every time I come to a stop and press the clutch in the car just dies. For me it's so much more to check cuz I have a turbo but this sounds exactly what is happening to me.

How did you find your bearings were bad without pulling the motor or dropping the crank case? I really don't want to pull my motor again but it looks this way.:icon_shout:

[Stu_Gotti]

Well Aamco dropped the tranny, looked at the crank and said it was crankwalk because it was moving left and right a good amount...

The guy that I work with said that crankwalk is usually cured with new bearings, seals and shit like that, I'm not 100% positive that this is exactly whats wrong with my car, but we'll find out for certain on the 18th or 19th... going to start the process of pulling the engine, flipping the motor upside down, pulling the oil pan and getting those bearings replaced... I pray that this will fix it, because I surely cannot afford another shortblock or anything more then what I'm being told should fix it...

[TcTshaw]

Well Aamco dropped the tranny, looked at the crank and said it was crankwalk because it was moving left and right a good amount...

The guy that I work with said that crankwalk is usually cured with new bearings, seals and shit like that, I'm not 100% positive that this is exactly whats wrong with my car, but we'll find out for certain on the 18th or 19th... going to start the process of pulling the engine, flipping the motor upside down, pulling the oil pan and getting those bearings replaced... I pray that this will fix it, because I surely cannot afford another shortblock or anything more then what I'm being told should fix it...

Good like, I really hope this works out for you!

[Stu_Gotti]

:Forum65:

Well the last few days of wait are upon me :Inclassable39:

I'll get paid Thursday and hopefully be able to get my parts in time for the weekend... all goes well, I'll be pulling the engine and replacing parts this weekend coming up.

[Subbieinyoface]

All I know is my ass better get a call.

[Stu_Gotti]

I nose you want a call, I'll give you one, and if I do, you better come nukka! Haha!

[Stu_Gotti]

:-D Well good news and some kinda unexpected, slightly bad news...

I spent all day today with the help of my buddy, Paul, we pulled the engine from the whip, took the tranny off and discovered what he thought was the issue all along... when we popped off the oil pan, he discovered an object that looked like it had been mangled and just tossed in there, come to find out, it was in fact my thrust bearing that had gotten loose, mangled and then fell into my oil pan... So that for sure is my issue, its the bearing that makes the crank stay in spec [not allowing it to move left or right]...

Other then that, I noticed that Aamco stripped some of the flywheel bolts, so I'll have to order another set of those, and I also am going to need another clutch, it is pretty much done for, there is nothing left.

So outlook for this operation, I've got to order the parts from Scion of Waldorf [Chapter Sponsor] and should have everything minus the clutch around Tues or Wed. Big thanks to John [jester44] for coming through in the clutch with the 12 point axle socket, couldn't believe that NAPA, Advance and Auto Zone didn't have those carried, so I had Rob [tCracer2006] take me up to the dealership where John works, he was able to borrow the 12 point axle socket so I could get my car apart.

She's in various boxes and the engine is upside down on the stand awaiting parts... so more to follow including some pics I took today with my camera phone...

Sorry no DIY, I really cannot take that time this go around to do so, only because Paul has other projects and cannot spend additonal time taking pics with me.

So thats it for now!

I'm off to swan-dive into some gojo! :lol:

[Stu_Gotti]

Well, my hands are cleaned of the engine gunk, finally!

This is what I'm thinking I'll be needing to get it back up and running fully...

- Clutch
- Front and Rear main seals
- Standard Bearing set [Crank & Thrust]
- Flywheel bolts
- RTV
- Resurface my current flywheel

While we're in there, Paul was checking out my timing chain and a few other things, but said stuff looks good.

He semi-explained how and why the car was cutting off... basically there is a crank position sensor that goes inside the side of the block into the crank case, when my crank "walks" it moves out of the area where the sensor would pick it up and kills the engine. I was amazed at how butchered the thrust bearing was, I'm curious to know if my crank pully lent a hand in its death haha...

Anyways, I should hopefully have the money to get it back up and running in the next couple weeks, so for now she is in a few boxes and frame chillen in his garage.

[Stu_Gotti]

Planning on Friday to get the crank #'s I need to order proper bearings... should be ordering my clutch and other items then as well... 2 weeks or so and counting!

Trying to decide what clutch I want this time around... hmmm... choices!

Here are a few pics of the engine and stuff... more to come once I get them bastards to go through the right way.. stupid phone!

My clutch is fried!

[Stu_Gotti]

Some mo'...

The 1st pic here, that is my thrust bearing, inside my oil pan, that is what caused my crank walk...

3rd is my flywheel, it needs resurfaced badly.

[Stu_Gotti]

Here are some pics of the crank and crank case where it was starting to eat into the block... I am going to have to see if the thrust bearing sits in the slot properly, if not, then I may have to re-hone my block to make it align properly...

All the parts should be on order, so ETA is really close...

1st pic - looking up towards the cylinders and bottoms of the pistons...

2nd pic - this is where the thrust bearing sits, you can see where the block has been ate away at...

3rd pic - just a look down the crank

4th - another block shot where it has eaten away

[_Keith_]

Well sounds like you got lucky... no crank walk or any scoring.... that could of sucked...

[Stu_Gotti]

No, there was and is crank walk, that is what the damage to the block is from... but I caught it quick enough that I may be good to go with just replacing the bearings and seals... but I'm set now... just got to get the parts in and throw the engine back in...

:-)

[Stu_Gotti]

:blink2: Crazy I tell ya! I got my clutch in, but the card I used to order it was cancelled because I lost it the day after it was purchased, the $402.00 was not taken from my account yet, but Dezod went ahead and shipped it...

So I am on the phone with them explaining this as the FedEx guy strolls into my office with my clutch... If I were a crook, I'd have a free clutch and make out nicely, but since I'm not that type of guy, I wrote Paul and hopefully get this taken care of this week for them... odd how that played out.

[Stu_Gotti]

Does anyone know when I go to get my flywheel resurfaced, should I have anything else done that would ensure that the Competition Clutch mates with the ZPI flywheel? Or should there be no issues with those two mating up?

[_Keith_]

as long as its surfaced right and even shouldnt matter.

[Stu_Gotti]

Aight, just checking, I know when I upgraded the clutch with my stock flywheel, I had to get it altered to mate... didn't think that aftermarket would require that anyhow... but I'll be getting my parts from the dealership this Friday, and hopefully [depending upon Paul's mood after returning from travel this weekend] have it put back together in the next week or so...

:Banane09:

[Stu_Gotti]

8) Got all my parts from the dealership today, just needing my flywheel resurfaced, then hit up a auto parts store for some RTV, plasty gauge and some fluids... getting close, finally!

[fightinsk8ers]

awesome! im glad everything is finally coming together for ya

[Stu_Gotti]

I was looking at the thrust bearings and it looks like we may have a problem because it's a two piece design. If it were one piece it would take up the slack but two is a different story. Also I only saw one side for the thrust bearing I would think there would be a thrust on both sides. I'll look at it closer when I get some time.


Well I may have spoken too soon...

I'm being told that the design of the thrust bearing may give me issues now that we're going to try and make this work... If the thrust bearing was one piece, it would simply sit in there and remain stable, but since its not, it may come loose again..

I believe that the only way to fix this is to block line bore the damn thing... So keep your fingers crossed, I need to see if this works, or I may have to find a spare motor.

Notice in this pic, there is a lip that the thrust bearing would sit on, with it being ate in, it may not stay in place the correct way... I'm assuming this is the issue.

[Stu_Gotti]

Well our worst case scenario in fact is reality at this point :cry:

The 2-piece design for the upper thrust bearing and the damage to the wall of the block is going to make it so that I have to do one of three things. New block would be one, second would be to metal-set the bearing in place, but obviously I'd rather do this the right way, or three [which I'm already in the hunt for doing] is locating or having a 1-piece upper thrust bearing designed or bought so that the wall damage really won't affect the install.

I'm in contact right now with Charles Gordon, some of you may know him as TurboCustomz, on ScionLife. I'm getting the specs from the bearings as soon as I'm done this posting, going to see if he can spec it out and potentially have this made to eliminate the first and second option.

So no rebuild as it stands right now, I'm going to call him back shortly with those specs and should know something he's saying around Monday or Tuesday if he can make it happen. I've also sent numerous emails to folks such as Chris Rado and various other well known individuals and companies to see what they can do to help get the Gotti back in business.

More to follow.

[icarus]

had an old friend's '93 5.0 that did basically the same thing. but that clutch looked damn near new compared to the 5.0's clutch. it ran basically on 7 out of 8 cylinders after he put it back together because he ignored the chewed up crank journals. hope it can be fixed without getting a new block