The Turbo Is On !!!! - But I Have A Few Problems

[trrbo_tc]

ok so here is my issue...

the custom turbo kit is on, and installed and the car starts ...

i installed an emanage that was supposed to be tuned for 440cc injectors

so i just finished installing my deatschwerks 440cc injectors and i hooked up the emanage, and i have a really rough idle ...

the car starts, thank god, but the idle is kinda rough ..

i also cannot rev the motor above 4500 rpm without it bogging itself out ..

too rich ? anyone got any ideas ?

[Binder86]

ok so here is my issue...

the custom turbo kit is on, and installed and the car starts ...

i installed an emanage that was supposed to be tuned for 440cc injectors

so i just finished installing my deatschwerks 440cc injectors and i hooked up the emanage, and i have a really rough idle ...

the car starts, thank god, but the idle is kinda rough ..

i also cannot rev the motor above 4500 rpm without it bogging itself out ..

too rich ? anyone got any ideas ?

It could be in limp mode do to the fact that the tune wasn't thorough. I had similar problems with a cold start and idle with the e-manage ultimate. I ended up selling it and getting the AEM EMS. Also hook up a scan tool to your obdII to see if there are any codes thrown. It may be something with your drive by wire not allowing the throttle plate to open fully, your injectors could be too high an impedence, your icu could be sending mixed signals and messing up the firing order (doubt this one though, but possible). Talk to the person who tuned it, but obviously the new piggy back system needs to be told everything from injector size to rim and wheel size.

[THansenite]

That E-manage was tuned for the stock injectors. If they are running the same duty cycle (I'm not sure how the E-manage controls fuel), it will be dumping way too much fuel into the engine.

[Krdshrk]

Do you have a wideband on? You're most likely running too rich. I doubt there's a tune on the emanage at all.

Also - are you using the same spark plugs or have you gone with 1 step colder plugs?

[THansenite]

Do you have a wideband on? You're most likely running too rich. I doubt there's a tune on the emanage at all.

Also - are you using the same spark plugs or have you gone with 1 step colder plugs?

Yea, there is a tune on the E-manage. It was tuned by Kenny for a ZPI Stage 0. :up:

[trrbo_tc]

ok well i left my 440cc injectors on the car, and i removed the emanage.

the car seems to run fine now . no rough idle's or anything.

if the emanage was tuned for stock injectors then running 440cc injectors would most likely cause it to idle rough the way it is idling.

damn turbo giving me problems... ....

[2dot4]

my car idles well below 10:1 at points and it's rough as shit.

you told me the e-manage was tuned for 440cc injectors...if it's actually tuned for 370cc injectors, you're just running hella rich I would think...causing a rough idle.

also the stage 0 runs at 5.5psi, right? You're pushing 7psi, so...there's a lot of things not lining up properly.

Hook up your laptop and just clear the pre-tune, because it's not helping you. You gotta get it retuned anyway. Also, go buy the injector harness for the e-manage, because without it, you can only tune it by airflow, which is fine, but it's not perfect. Spend the $35 for a much better tune opportunity, you know? the injector harness lets you add fuel on the e-manage blue.

Since the driveablity returns when you remove the e-manage, you know the tune is faulty. So just clear it and take it somewhere to re-tune it.

[Krdshrk]

Yea, there is a tune on the E-manage. It was tuned by Kenny for a ZPI Stage 0. :up:

Yeah but stage 0 is with 370cc injectors, not 440. Plus it's only 5.5 PSI not 7.

[Binder86]

I agree with Eric. The new injector harness will provide a better tune opportunity. I don't know much about the e-manage system, but If it still thinks your running the stock injectors it's going to overdump fuel and run rich, which later on can lead to fuel cut and serious damage to your internals due to the alcohol in the gas nowadays.

[trrbo_tc]

ok well, what do you guys think i should do ?

i have the 2 following options.

currently the car runs fine with the following setup,

440cc injectors with the stock ecu and no emanage.

idle is perfect.


here are my two options .

OPTION 1 : Replace the stock injectors tomorrow and hook up the e manage and see how that runs since thats what it was tuned for.

OPTION 2 : Replace Stock Injectors and run of my stock ecu and no e manage until i have the emanage tuned. this also means that my turbo is running on the car at the same time with basically no tune or no piggyback system.

OPTION 3 : leave my car the way it is and leave the 440cc injectors on and no e manage and run it that way for the next 2 weeks until i get paid and i can have it tuned and dyno'd.

help me out here guys ..

thanks !

[The_Game]

Almost got that turbo finished huh!!??

[Nebster]

i'd say option 1 would be the best.... option 3 seems the most dangerous, its not just how it idles its how it drives as well. that was my emanage and i can safely say if it idles rough put in a stage colder plugs. that tune was not made for the 440's so thats a big problem. also depending on your weather you might need to have it retuned anyway

[_Keith_]

Do you have a wideband?

If your a:f is in the right area thats the option to go with.

[trrbo_tc]

no i dont have a wideband yet, i would buy one but all i can say is that i think im running really rich because i just went through a tank of gas really quickly .. like within 2 days .. which is outrageous ... i never go through a tank of gas that quickly.

[Binder86]

I'd recommend the wideband. It shows your AFR in real time so if you know if your running rich or not. Then you can tune the ecu to new parameters to make it run at an ideal mixture. The injectors should be fine as long as the impedence is between 12.5 and 13.5 (14 max) ohms.

[2dot4]

I thought my car was running rich most of the time, and when I installed my wideband, it proved otherwise - super lean.

ebay seller "speedclinic" sold me mine for $230 shipped. might wanna check him out if you can't find a used one. Brand new AEM UEGO for $230 is a steal if you ask me.

[Binder86]

That's the same one I have in my car. Real easy to hook up, minus taking the stock o2 sensor out. Lean situations can cause it to bog down a bit and then raise the rpm level to almos 3 grand, and it should be compatible with the e-manage, I'm not sure my cars brains are all supplied by AEM and worked well till Kenny Strickler tore up my car.

[trrbo_tc]

interesting.

here is another question for you guys.

here is a situation i encountered the today and yesterday.

since my emanage is not tuned and i dont have it hooked up,
i have not allowed the car to boost at all, in fact i try not to let the car get to -10 on vacuum, because that when it starts to spool really quickly and then go in to boost.

anyways, here is my situation, about 20 mins ago, i took my gf home and after i took her home, i jumped on the freeway, i decided that for the first time i would let the car boost a little,

so i let it hit 5 PSI for about 5 - 8 secs ..

during this short period it felt like the car wanted to bog out several times,
very slight moments where the car was bogging out for maybe 1/10th of a second each time but it worried me so i quickly took my foot off the pedal .

can that be my car running way too lean ?

[Binder86]

Yup way too lean it may even get to the point if you don't tune it in a while it may just shut off when down shifting to turn in your driveway or when you slow down and maybe just idling. However I don't want to diagnose your car since I haven't seen it drive or sound. But it seems like the same problem I had It just sounds like the injectors aren't spraying enough fuel and can't handle the boost level. It's nothing wrong with your turbo or injectors, but it is harming your internals creating a real harsh environment in the combustion chamber. I would talk to a professional though, I'm going to UTI right now and want to get into driveability and fuel/ignition systems, so this is just a guess on my part to help guide you through your issue. Your car is just telling you to tune your wideband to help keep and eye on your afr for a more accurate tune.

[trrbo_tc]

ok thanks.

i'll make sure i switch back to stock injectors...

i bought deatschwerks stock injectors, however when i looked at the stock injectors they looked like they would spray more fuel in to the combustion chamber then the 440cc deatschwerks injectors that i bought ..

for example, the stock injectors had about 5 or 6 holes from which they sprayed fuel, and on the deat schwerks injectors there were only 4 holes.

i am going to assume that, that doesnt make a difference ?

or am i over analyzing stuff because i dont know what the heck i'm doing. ?

[Binder86]

ok thanks.

i'll make sure i switch back to stock injectors...

i bought deatschwerks stock injectors, however when i looked at the stock injectors they looked like they would spray more fuel in to the combustion chamber then the 440cc deatschwerks injectors that i bought ..

for example, the stock injectors had about 5 or 6 holes from which they sprayed fuel, and on the deat schwerks injectors there were only 4 holes.

i am going to assume that, that doesnt make a difference ?

or am i over analyzing stuff because i dont know what the heck i'm doing. ?

Don't switch back injectors use pulse with modulation to turn on and off and the design of the injector matters due to a different spray pattern. On a flow test you can see that under pressure the stock injectors spray like taking a piss after sex haha if you will, all over the place and uneven. While the 440cc is more even and consistant spray allowing for easier compression and even and thorough burn.

[trrbo_tc]

but if i am running lean on the 440cc injectors and i dont have the money to get tuned right now, should i switch back to stock injectors and run the emanage ?

[Nebster]

absolutly. i think you shoudl be doing that anyway considering that TUNE is safe.

[2dot4]

you're not running lean on 440cc injectors with no tune...especially with a small turbo on 7psi.

the tune is faulty - install the e-manage and go get the car re-tuned for your 440cc injectors. That will fix your problem guaranteed.

My car runs lean as shit, and hesitates really bad in cold weather under hard acceleration, then "Catches" and takes off. It doesn't always happen, but it happens enough to worry me. I'm gonna buy new injectors, and go get my car tuned with my tax refund. It's really the only option you should consider.

In the meantime, stay away from WOT, and keep it under boost, and you'll be ok.

[trrbo_tc]

yeah iv'e been keeping it under boost.. but my turbo is super loud and at -10 vacuum it almost sounds as if it is boosting .. so i try to keep it under -10 vacuum all together.

[Binder86]

It should be loud because it's vacuum all it is is sucking to prevent a surge when going wot in a spit second. I'd say it's not safe to drive the car under either conditions due to the beating the internals are getting. However the safest way is to either minimize boost or take your luck with the stock injectors until you can afford the tune. Good luck in the future with the build and I hope everything works out to its full potential. If you need anymore help feel free to pm me.

[trrbo_tc]

crap. i really need to get a Wideband.

[Binder86]

It will help with the tuning process a lot and they are easy to install so you don't have to get charged for labor by the shop.

[Krdshrk]

Yes - You should have invested in a wideband right away.

[Binder86]

What shop did you plan on going to. Talk to joe @ dezod west tell him I referred you to him and he'll hook you up with a good place and be sure to tell him about the financial issue.

[trrbo_tc]

ok i will ..

[2dot4]

wideband is nice, but I wouldn't say it's necessary unless you're tuning the car yourself...you know you need to get it tuned, so having a wideband will only verify that claim. And most dyno tuners have their own wideband, so it's not 100% necessary.

[Binder86]

They come in handy though if you have a plug n play unit and its showing a little out of specs and the idle is a tad rough. So all you have to do is remember what the numbers are ideal and where to put them.

[trrbo_tc]

it's been rainging here for like 2 or 3 days now and i hate the rain .. most of all though is the fact that i need to pay attention to the road especially in the rain and all i am paying attention to is the damn boost gauge trying to prevent the car from boosting while im on the freeway ..

[Binder86]

Sooner or later you will get a good feel for it and just know by sound, and then hopefully you will be able to get it tuned and get the satisfaction of just looking at the needle go up and down through shifts.

[trrbo_tc]

today i gave the car a little more gas then usual... seemed like it was okay at 5 psi ...

although at one point the car shutoff on me at a stop sign.

:( ?

i'm assuming once it's tuned and i can give it WOT, i'll be feeling the speed increase bigtime in comparison to the headers, cause right now, i sure as hell dont feel a difference.. but thats also because im trying to stay below boost..

even when i do boost though , i dont really feel the motor pullingthat hard...

maybe it's just me ...

[rhythmnsmoke]

Stage 0 is 6 PSI not 5.5.

[rhythmnsmoke]

Don't switch back injectors use pulse with modulation to turn on and off and the design of the injector matters due to a different spray pattern. On a flow test you can see that under pressure the stock injectors spray like taking a piss after sex haha if you will, all over the place and uneven. While the 440cc is more even and consistant spray allowing for easier compression and even and thorough burn.


:rofl2::rofl2:I can't believe you just compared it to pissing after having sex...

[trrbo_tc]

Stage 0 is 6 PSI not 5.5.

rhythm, my wastegate is at 7.7 but iv'e been keeping boost under 5 psi ..

that's what i meant, my kit is not a stage 0 kit either i have a fairly large godspeed intercooler.

:)

[Binder86]

Large intercoolers can hinder performance if not the right amount of boost jis reached, due to the pressure drops when shifting, and yes rhythymsmoke I went there:rofl2::rofl2:

[rhythmnsmoke]

rhythm, my wastegate is at 7.7 but iv'e been keeping boost under 5 psi ..

that's what i meant, my kit is not a stage 0 kit either i have a fairly large godspeed intercooler.

:)


Oh, ok. You have the intercooler, so you will see a slight difference in PSI. Louis (guy in our chapter) has a Stage 0, with an optional Emanage. He reads 6 PSI on the boost gauge.

[rhythmnsmoke]

Large intercoolers can hinder performance if not the right amount of boost jis reached, due to the pressure drops when shifting, and yes rhythymsmoke I went there:rofl2::rofl2:


I have to admit, that was funny...:rofl:

[Binder86]

yup yup

[trrbo_tc]

um ... ok ..

so anyways, the appointment to tune the car is set for this upcoming weekend.

it's gonna cost about 325 to 350 to tune the thing & dyno it.

[Binder86]

Good stuff. Let us know what the outcome is.

[trrbo_tc]

will do .. :)

[2dot4]

zpi stage 0 is 5.5psi....according to Kenny,

it may register close to 6psi, because I'm pretty sure it uses a .4bar wG spring, which is 5.8psi. Next step up is .5bar, which is 7.3psi.

and since it has no boost controller other than the wG spring, you can assume it's peak is 5.8psi...probably settling at 5.5psi max. I'm using a .5bar spring, and I my boost gauge sits right at 7psi peak...only occassionally hitting 7.3psi. Assuming something is lost in the expansion of the vacuum lines, I guess.

All I know is kenny was the one telling people 5.5psi...probably based on a readout from a digital gauge on a test car. Every car is different, but all stage 0's use a .4bar, which is 5.8psi.

btw - if you ever want to convert bar to psi, multiply bar by 14.5 - just FYI.

[trrbo_tc]

i dont know why everyone is talking about zpi ...

i have a custom kit .. i never mentioned zpi ..

so umm yeah ..

[Binder86]

ZPI doesn't exist really anymore. Rhythym can explain to you more than I can. I have a clutch and flywheel from them and can't complain. However I just went through some stuff with Kenny PM me for more details. So going on about your custom kit, what make and kind of turbo do you have and what style manifold. I have a custom kit as well that got leaked. It was the first 07 to go F/I and now two different companies stole it from me and too much red tape bullsh@t to go through seeing how I didn't get it patented.

[2dot4]

i don't think you can patent a custom turbo kit...seeing as how you're just compiling a bunch of other companies parts into your kit...it's like patenting an outfit...I'm sure if you tried hard enough, you could - but who's gonna enforce it? lol

And I don't remember who brought up ZPI...I just went with the flow.

[rhythmnsmoke]

You may be able to paten a manifold (MAYBE), but trying to patent a turbo kit is worthless, as all someone has to do is change one thing on it, and it's a different kit.

[Binder86]

Which is why I didn't deal with the bullsh@t to begin with cuz all they will say is that oh its a garett turbo, and turbonetics manifold and blah blah blah. No sweat off my back though it was cheaper than buying a whole kit from one company. I was just pissed that there are companies out there just to see what's going on and if it works well, take notes on your engine and sell it themselves and make a profit. Shit happens.

[trrbo_tc]

if there is anybody that knows all about that ... it's me as well, i have made a grip of things - everything from software production and other things only to watch someone analyze my work, change 2 or 3 things on it that are very very minor and then sell it and take over my business..

[Mr_Meaty]

So do either of you, binder or trrbo_tc, have pics of your custom kits?

[trrbo_tc]

i have some pics but i havent uploaded them yet...

[Binder86]

Same here I have them can't figure how to get them on my computer. The one downside of macs. I only have the plug in for pc's. I'll upload them this weekend when I go back home to watch the superbowl.

[2dot4]

I know you didn't ask for it, but here's my custom kit...

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z99/2dot4/turbo2.jpg

the blue couplers weren't my original choice...the black ones were on back order, and I didn't want to wait lol.

[Binder86]

Nice. I'm not a huge fan of log style manifolds due to their perfomance on a bench flow test, but very well done.

[Krdshrk]

I'm not either but that's what most turbos use for the tC... Turbonetics, Treadstone, ZPI... I think the Dezod one is too. The only kits that don't use a log mani are the GReddy and the TurboToyotas.

[Mr_Meaty]

Nice! If I had thought you had a custom kit, I would have asked you as well!

What mani is that, 2dot4? and are you not running an intercooler?

[trrbo_tc]

Same here I have them can't figure how to get them on my computer. The one downside of macs. I only have the plug in for pc's. I'll upload them this weekend when I go back home to watch the superbowl.

dude, if your on a mac, it's a thousand times easier, im a mac master.

just use iphoto to import your images and export them out for the web with one of the programs presets and then upload them here for people to view .. piece of cake !


-----------

[JoshCrane1]

:beer:

[trrbo_tc]

hey guys i need some help with my wastegate ....

tak a look at this thread..

http://www.scikotics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22904

[2dot4]

mr. meaty, I have an ATP manifold. it's THICK! no worries about cracking that beast lol. And yeah, they flow like shit, but I didn't have the option of an equal length...I don't know many people with custom kits that have an EL manifold...you bet your ass I'd have used one if I could.

and no intercooler yet - trying to find a company for a tune, then I'll start adding more shit from there. Tune's got priority....despite how badly I want an intercooler - I've had enough money for a while...just been dealing with local shops giving me the runaround and changing prices for their tunes....it's all explained at the beginning of the "turbo talk" thread.