finaly got my subs rated!

[Flecs]

well i was at a car show yesterday that also had a bass contest and my system hit 125.7 db which isnt too bad considering my boxes arent ported and i have only dropped about a grand into my system when the guy next to me had abour 12g's in his an dhit 149ish i think... but me and rob were both some of the higher ups!

[BlkSandPrlTurbotC]

Was this a MECA Event? 125.7db is pretty freggin good for unported boxes!

Break that 130 mark!

[Flecs]

i dont believe so... it was just at a circuit city... but it was pretty cool... alot of nice shiz there!

[Nebster]

gj man, 125 isn't bad at all... what are you running exactly.

[Flecs]

two 12 rockford P3's
with the P800 amp and rockford 1 farad cap 4 gauge power and groun dcables

[Flecs]

correction... i did 135.7 :D

[aZepolyn]

ok now you're just showin off :pilot:

[Flecs]

is there a problem with that? :P

[aZepolyn]

Nope! None at all! lol :rofl:

[eddiemoney]

Not trying to rain on your parade, but just so you know there is a ton of difference between 135 and 145. You are talking probably 3-4 times the power output for that higher number. Also ported boxes don't neccesarily make your system louder, it is very dependent on the box design as well as the sub design. Certain woofers are really only made to work one way well, typically the higher sensitivity the better the woofer will sound in sealed, and vice versa.

[Flecs]

my subs are good for sealed boxes but even better in ported... i have my boxes @ rockfords recomended volume for sealed... but according to a guy form a shop that dos alot of work with rockford... ported boxes are way louder

[tommymcc]

Was this a MECA Event? 125.7db is pretty freggin good for unported boxes!

Break that 130 mark!

i'm pushing 142 sealed, but that is with 4 10's, and i also got lucky with the positioning of them so they sound just right

[blackboxrc]

what frequency you hittin. get that down low (80 hz should do) and the db up high and everyones gonna puke, that is if you can support that kinda sound and your car doesnt fly apart.

[Phlame217]

Lol back in the day, my friend has the new 18" solo x, not sure what rating that hit but when we rode in his explorer with it turned up, we had to go windows down for our ears sake and to keep the seals in tact.

[Flecs]

Was this a MECA Event? 125.7db is pretty freggin good for unported boxes!

Break that 130 mark!

i'm pushing 142 sealed, but that is with 4 10's, and i also got lucky with the positioning of them so they sound just right

nice! sounds cool


what frequency you hittin. get that down low (80 hz should do) and the db up high and everyones gonna puke, that is if you can support that kinda sound and your car doesnt fly apart.

not really sure... if that comment was to me... im still an audio n00b and learning as i go


Lol back in the day, my friend has the new 18" solo x, not sure what rating that hit but when we rode in his explorer with it turned up, we had to go windows down for our ears sake and to keep the seals in tact.

lol... sounds awesome!

[eddiemoney]

Any RF sub will perform better in a ported box because they have absolutely no sound quality, they are all about quanity.

You want to rock find your self an old skool Cerwin Vega Stroker

[tommymcc]

i have to agree with the RF comment, their newer subs have more SQ than the older stuff, but nothing compared to JL, RE, ID, etc

but they're a purpose built sub, they're built to be loud and only that, i've owned many RF subs and i stand by it, if you want something is simply loud and don't care if the sub sounds muddy, go with rockford, i suggest powerhx2's, the P1-p3 still have a problem with the cones cracking, and the T1-T2's can't be ported as well as the hx2's for some reason, i could never get them to sound just right for me


as for what freq. i'm pushing, i'm pushing 90hz currently, i pumped out .5 more db from jumping from 80 th 90

[eddiemoney]

And for those of you new to car audio tommy's .5 dB is a huge number believe it or not.

[Nebster]

to correct eddie. .5 db is huge at a high range but i can make .5 db just by breathing about like i dunno 20 db. so .5 db is large around 130 or so but not so much around -60

[eddiemoney]

Correct, i was assuming people know that, but we all know what ASSUMING DOES!!

[tommymcc]

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a 2db gain the same as the sound being twice as loud

[Nebster]

above a certain point, 130 i think

[trebor]

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a 2db gain the same as the sound being twice as loud


It takes twice the power to gain 3db. :kid:

[eddiemoney]

^^^That's what it is. . .been years since i was in stereo comps

[tommymcc]

you can gain 2db simply by changning the angle of a sub or by switching from sealed to ported etc, in an ideal situation doubling your power will result in +3db, but if you add another sub you have another driver that is gonna take up space and possible have phasing problems etc... so you may only gain 2db, or possibly alot more

its kinda case by case, i can keep my current box and amp and simply switch to the new version of the w3 and gain 1-2 db simply because the new w3's are more efficient with power and move more air, i could keep the same amp and run a single sub that handles the same power and possibly lose or gain db, thats why competition audio is just trial and error, these guys who compete nationally completly revamp their setups each year in the hopes of gaining 1 more db

also deadning works wonders with spl, and i'm not talking about using dynamat to make stuff not rattle, i mean multiple layers of deading all the way around the vehicle, using spray on liner on all plastic pieces, filling the doors and other cavities in the vehicle with sound deadning clay etc.. it adds a shit-ton of weight to the vehicle but the sound is just amazing, the audison/eclipse/focal rep for OK has 25 pounds of clay in each door and his midbass drivers sound like a pair of 10's, but they're only 5.25 simply due to deading

[Flecs]

dayum

[pinoystarr]

any of you guys have an experience with a 12w7 ....

i just got one in a sealed box and its sounds good to me but i'm wondering if there would be something i could do to get more out of it...

here is how its setup:

- 3/4" mdf sealed box
- eclipse DA7122 mono amp
- 4g rockford fosgate mono amp kit ( i know i need 1/0 gauge & a cap )


i'm still a noob when it comes to setup but you guys seem to know a lil more than i do so any info helps me.

[tommymcc]

to be honest with you, jl subs are made to go with jl amps, so your best bet is to find a jl amp to go with and upgrade the wiring, don't worry about using a cap because they're a waste of money, its best to upgade your battery and the big 3 wires first, then altenator

big3 wires are: wire from battery to ground, wire from battery to altenator, and the chassis ground for the altenator, they should all be 1/0

[eddiemoney]

1/0 for battery to alternator is a little overkill IMHO, but if you are going hardcore you will need to do that.

[tommymcc]

too much won't hurt it, but too little will

and if your going 1/0 from battery to the amps then why not make all of it 1/0, you don't wanna bottleneck the flow of power

[trebor]

to be honest with you, jl subs are made to go with jl amps

I smell bullshit !! :guns:

[trebor]

any of you guys have an experience with a 12w7 ....

i just got one in a sealed box and its sounds good to me but i'm wondering if there would be something i could do to get more out of it...

here is how its setup:

- 3/4" mdf sealed box
- eclipse DA7122 mono amp
- 4g rockford fosgate mono amp kit ( i know i need 1/0 gauge & a cap )


i'm still a noob when it comes to setup but you guys seem to know a lil more than i do so any info helps me.

Try building a ported box, it'll give you alittle more output. JL has a recommended box design on their website for one. :kid:

[JDMBox05]

screw JL it's all about Memphis!

[tommymcc]

screw JL it's all about Memphis!

at what? sounding muddy?

yeah jl is expensive, but you get what you pay for, and memphis subs get loud, but they sound like ass in the process, same deal with rockford

as for jl amps + subs, they do that because the subs are rated at 1.5ohms, its hard to get a amp that pushes 1000w at 1.5ohm unless you go with a little bit more power, i've heard 13w7's on a jl 1000/1 compared to rf bd1000, crossfire vr1000, and whatever memhis' 1000d amp is and they don't even compare, sounds like a sales bit, but guess what, its what i've seen and heard

[trebor]

as for jl amps + subs, they do that because the subs are rated at 1.5ohms, its hard to get a amp that pushes 1000w at 1.5ohm

I still smell it !! :guns:

I have a 12W6V2 and both of its voice coils are definately rated at 4Ohms apiece, that would be 2Ohms parallel or 8Ohms series, not 1.5Ohms, no matter how you look at it. Impedance has nothing to do with sound quality, only how you will wire it to get the power from your amp. It doesnt matter if those watts are coming from a Memphis or a JL amp, 1000 measured watts is the same 1000 watts from either amp. Just because it has a JL stamp on it doesn't mean it'll sound any better than the Memphis. Power is power....PERIOD! :up:

[tommymcc]

the new w7's are all single 3ohm coil except the 13w7 which is 1.5ohm, so you can run two 10 or 12 on a 1000/1 at 1.5ohm

jl amps are 1000w a 4-1.5ohm, memphis are gonna be like most other brands, 500w @4 750 @2 and 1000 @1 ohm

and yes, the amp brand does make a difference, put my audison srx2 against any other 2 channel for high/mid's, it'll sound 10x better, why? simply because the compents inside are better, srx2 is 65wx2 i replaced a RF power 500/2 and the audison amp was way louder and cleaner

like i said, i hold memphis amps in the same catergory with rf, they make power just to say they do, they don't make clean power, SnR's of 90db and thd of 1% is just plain garbage and most of your power is wasted in distortion and heat dissapation, audison amps have snr of 120-150db, and thd or .0001% for their bottem end models

and i know impedence has nothing to do with SQ, but it matters when you're pulling a 4 ohm load from a amp that pushes down to a 1ohm, or pulling 1ohm from a 2ohm, you're either not gonna recieve power, or your gonna overpower the amp and fry it

[tommymcc]

not trying to be an ass, just saying that different brands are more than what the amp looks like, theyr'e all the same when they're cheap amps, but when you go high end it makes a difference, you just gotta hear it to realize, i didn't till about 2 years ago

[JDMBox05]

memphis does not sound "muddy" at all, they are by far one of the cleanest sounding woofers on the market today

[tommymcc]

???

you really need to hear a RE, Focal, JL, IDMAX, ED, Digital Designs, or Treo then, memphis sound like rockford and audiobahn subs, they put this big super excursion surround on it and a big magnet and call it good

memphis are made for one reason, SPL, old memphis (as in 10 years ago) memphis subs did sound good, but thats before everybody was trying to break 170db with their comp cars, now the fad is big excursion, deeps subs that need a big ported box and can lay down some high spl, at the cost of sq, all the subs that can lay down good spl with good sq run you $600 + because you gotta pay for the technology it took to combine the two, like in the case of the w7, jl put millions into that design and it worked, so they use it in all their subs now, the sq/spl difference in the new w3 compared to the old is phenomenial, same with the new and old w6's


i used to be in the same boat, budget systems so i shopped for rockford stuff and i thought it was just soooo awesome, then i walked in a store and hear audison and focal used together, then sat in the audison reps vehicle and it sounded increadible(not knock you on your ass spl), it felt like you were sitting in the room with the performer, you could hear every detail in the music, there was no cutoff in freq., it was smooth from 20khz down to 30hz, but that sound comes at a very high price, and if you listen to music like rap and other music that isn't made to sound good raither than just blast some beat or riff at you you'll never hear it, i can pop in some rap and my setup sounds like a good setup, pop in some jazz or other SQ geared music and you'll ask yourself how do ppl make speakers that sound like this and why aren't they in my car? you just gotta step out of that mid grade audio equipment bubble and move to the focal, audison, mcintosh, zapco, and diamond gear, or if you short on cash at least jump to jl, boston, high end alpine (type x) stuff, and just say screw memphis, rockford, audiobhan, pioneer stuff

its not worth dropping $100 on a sub if you just gonna get a $150 sub 4 months later, then the $200 sub 4 more months later etc... just break down and get the good stuff up front and not waste money, i have a closet full of rockford gear that nobody wants because they hear my setup and compare it to what was in it

fs: rf p162s, rf t162s, rf power 551x, and some other odds and ends that i've taken out over that last year

[Nebster]

ELEMENTAL FTW.


i'm going there tomorrow and probably place my order for the system.

[JDMBox05]

memphis is definately not budget systems. Just wait till i get my 2 mojo 15's and then we can talk about clean....

[trebor]

and yes, the amp brand does make a difference, put my audison srx2 against any other 2 channel for high/mid's, it'll sound 10x better, why? simply because the compents inside are better, srx2 is 65wx2 i replaced a RF power 500/2 and the audison amp was way louder and cleaner

like i said, i hold memphis amps in the same catergory with rf, they make power just to say they do, they don't make clean power, SnR's of 90db and thd of 1% is just plain garbage and most of your power is wasted in distortion and heat dissapation, audison amps have snr of 120-150db, and thd or .0001% for their bottem end models

You are the guy that marketing wizards love! I have some swamp land to sell ya............ :rofl2:

If your Rockford amp actually measured to put out the same power as your Audison, then there's no way your "audison was way louder". more headroom....probably. As far as being cleaner, it may be, but, I personally cannot hear the difference between 1% distortion or .0001%, and I bet you can't either. Audison is way overpriced, lacking the same gains in price/performance that you just paid for their name(I'm not knocking Audison's quality here, I'm sure it's fine stuff). I'm willing to put a $200MTX amp up against it for high/mid's and I bet no one will say(cept' you maybe) that your amp sounds 10x better. I even have an old Memphis laying around in storage somewhere and we can try it too, it will put that Audison to shame simply because it puts out much more power(more power generally sounds better), the MTX would be more fair though, it puts out about the same power as your Audison. I believe the MTX has enough headroom to sound similiar, I'm sure the Memphis does.

As far as what you heard in the Audison rep's car, speakers will make more of a difference in sound quality than amplifiers. But most good sound in a car comes more from proper speaker placement, sound deadening, EQ, and proper gain structure setup than brand name. :kid:

[trebor]

I see your in OKC, are you the guy that bought Brians Xb(his car was bagged, he worked at Audio Midwest)? Lemme know when you have some time to kill and we'll meetup for some scikotic audio fun! :up:

[trebor]

ELEMENTAL FTW.


i'm going there tomorrow and probably place my order for the system.

I hear they make nice sounding stuff, enjoy!

[trebor]

memphis is definately not budget systems. Just wait till i get my 2 mojo 15's and then we can talk about clean....

Jeremy, are you gonna have those before you move back to Edmond? Where will you put them? Take out your back seat?

[tommymcc]

I see your in OKC, are you the guy that bought Brians Xb(his car was bagged, he worked at Audio Midwest)? Lemme know when you have some time to kill and we'll meetup for some scikotic audio fun! :up:

will do, i'm gonna try to be at slamboree this weekend if i can find a baby sitter for my kid

[tommymcc]

If your Rockford amp actually measured to put out the same power as your Audison, then there's no way your "audison was way louder". more headroom....probably. As far as being cleaner, it may be, but, I personally cannot hear the difference between 1% distortion or .0001%, and I bet you can't either. Audison is way overpriced, lacking the same gains in price/performance that you just paid for their name(I'm not knocking Audison's quality here, I'm sure it's fine stuff). I'm willing to put a $200MTX amp up against it for high/mid's and I bet no one will say(cept' you maybe) that your amp sounds 10x better. I even have an old Memphis laying around in storage somewhere and we can try it too, it will put that Audison to shame simply because it puts out much more power(more power generally sounds better), the MTX would be more fair though, it puts out about the same power as your Audison. I believe the MTX has enough headroom to sound similiar, I'm sure the Memphis does.

As far as what you heard in the Audison rep's car, speakers will make more of a difference in sound quality than amplifiers. But most good sound in a car comes more from proper speaker placement, sound deadening, EQ, and proper gain structure setup than brand name. :kid:

yes, put your cheap mtx amp on a pair of good focals, then put an audison amp on them, it makes a huge difference, i can tell the diff in a audison and jl amp on focals, the sound is just different, but it also depends on the listener, average joe who doesn't care about sq won't notice unless you point stuff out to him, and even then he still won't care because average joe would rather spend $100 on some coax's rather than spend $900 on some focals

and yeah, this guy has put lots of money and time into his car with speaker positioning, a great eq setup, and about 200pds of sounddeadning

[Flecs]

lol... lets all calm down kiddies :)

[Nebster]

yeah its getting a little heated. its simple. buy what you can afford that is good. you can't go wrong with any of the companies we're talking about so why worry?

[trebor]

yeah its getting a little heated.

I don't believe either of us got upset......I hope, but I do call bullshit when I know better! :pilot: :rofl2:

[Nebster]

i do too

no hard feelings

[tommymcc]

yeah, not upset, we're just trying to state our opinions, which most of them are the same except our fews on the quality of an amp based upon is SNR and THD%

[trebor]

I havent said anything about SNR :shock: , but.....an amps SNR only has to be as good as the equipment before it. Nothing is gained by having anything better than that. :wink:

[tommymcc]

true, thats where the high voltage rca's and low impedance rca's come in, then you have to have quality rca's too, i think my HU is 8v and 55ohm for the rca's and some good stinger rca's, but really all you have to do is keep the rca's away from power sources and wires, i had a problem with my components on the left buzzing at first then i realized the speaker wires crossed directly over the power wire, good going brian

do you know if brian has done anything to the tacoma i sold him?

[trebor]

do you know if brian has done anything to the tacoma i sold him?

No idea