Interior Tartan?

[TartanJack]

I'm having difficulty deciding the tartan for my xB. Now, the tartan determines colors for other things . . .
I was wondering what ya'll think, which could help me decide . . .

The tartans:
(Color not exactly right, as the camera picks it up weird):
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r46/MacWage/Tartan/P1010233.jpg
In order of poll. (Black Watch and Wallace got reversed. Wallace is black and red. Black Watch is the REALLY dark one.)

Front in Black Watch (to get an idea of what I am doing):
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r46/MacWage/Tartan/P1010228.jpg
Shifter boot (on auto):
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r46/MacWage/Tartan/P1010229.jpg


Here are the tartans (linked):
Below are the shades of the fabric I already have.

Deeside:
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanLargeImage.aspx?ref=905
(Charcoal, deep royal blue, yellow, purple, kelly green)
- I have enough for a 4-yard box pleat kilt, plus 6 yards extra (can't get more)

Brotherhood of the Kilt:
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanLargeImage.aspx?ref=5659
(Black, dark-dark green, purplely-blue, deep red)
- I have a kilt in this, plus 6 yards extra. May not be able to get more.

Black Watch (AKA Campbell, Grant Hunting, Munro, Sutherland Hunting, and others)
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanLargeImage.aspx?ref=277
(Hunter green, deep blue, and black)
- I can get as much of this as I want, plus in many, many different materials inc. wool, flannel, cotton, polarfleece, and more.

Wallace:
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanLargeImage.aspx?ref=4482
(Black, yellow, and Coca-Cola red)
- I have a kilt in this, plus can get plenty more.

Carolina:
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanLargeImage.aspx?ref=573
- I have material for kilt and source for fabric, but not the exact same shades.

"Simplified Carolina" (can't ID as a specific tartan), like Carolina, but w/o the light blue, yellow, and just a single green stripe in the center red
(Material I have is hunter green and a deep red)
- I have material for a 4-yard kilt, just over 4 yards (60" wide) and 4 yards 30" wide. I can get more, but ONLY until the other bolt at my supplier is gone.

Most of the material is wool.

[TartanJack]

Whoever has the power, please edit the poll to allow multiple choices when voting. I can't figure out how (and missed the option when posting).
Thanks.

[aalbertson3]

The Black Watch and Wallace are the only ones I really like. Look forward to some installed pictures... :Inclassable52:

[Rando]

The black and red of the Wallace would pop that Box!!!!

[TartanJack]

Across the various forums I asked . . .
It looks like Wallace (the red and black one) and Black Watch (the green, blue, and black one presently on my seats) are the most popular. It is 2 different looks . . .
1) Red color, black and gray base, and a bit of yellow accents.
2) Heavy use of black, blue, and green, with a red or orange accent (what is traditionally used as the bright accent w/ that tartan). Taking off the stock orange gauges w/ red needles, I may mix orange and red as the accents- mostly red, w/ a bit of orange.

Just so everyone knows . . .
My xB is a silver, gen 2. (if that makes a difference)

[Shadowmajik]

I personally think the black and red would kill being that the box is silver. I would love to see some installed pics either way its deff. different I like the way its headed

[DertySciko]

what clan are you from? that could depict what you should go with. or if i were you i'd go with the brotherhood.

i'm a wallace and have considered re-doing mine in the tartan.

[TartanJack]

A bit on the history of tartan . . .
Originally, the term meant a certain hard wool woven material, rather than the color pattern. Over time, it came to mean the pattern of colored thread in the weave, plus the material changed to a softer, more comfortable (but somewhat less durable) worsted wool. Plaid is Scots for "blanket."
In most of history, there wasn't meaning behind the tartan patterns, only tartan itself as a symbol of the Scots. As such, it was banned by the English following the 1745 Jacobite Rebellion, as a symbol of "Scottish National identity" along with bagpipes (which was listed as a weapon of war). The ban was repealed in 1782, but much of its use had fallen out of favor/fashion. It was used, but still was up to personal preference. That changed around 1800 . . . for several reasons converging:
1) Military units adopted a set pattern as part of their uniform, so they would look like a unit (this actually took a bit of effort to accomplish). Civilians took "meaning" in the specific pattern, more than personal taste and color preference.

2) The "Romantic" writers told stories of Scottish history and sang songs and recited poems of Scottish history, myth, legend, and down-right-lies. Walter Scott almost single-handedly invented the idea of "Clan Tartans" in his Waverly novels. As such, it was adopted as fact (which it had NEVER been used for previously).

3) Weavers (which had consolidated during the Industrial Revolution into sizable weaving companies, rather than thousands of home-weavers) realized that patterns sold better with a name. rather than the numbers they had been using. So, they began naming the numbered patterns. Now, if you took the time to look at the names of Wilson and Sons of Bannockburn (the largest weaving firm of the era), the names are funny. They have a "Robin Hood," "Rob Roy" (which is still used for the red/black simple tartan- Robin Hood is the SAME but in black and green), "Highland Mist," Gypsy, and after a BUNCH of fictional characters in Scott's novels. They also grabbed names from customers who bought a decent size batch of a tartan and named it that (yes, some early named tartans WERE that random).

4) King George IV decided to make a royal visit to Edinburgh, the first in decades and decades. Walter Scott orchestrated a HUGE display, including getting as many clan chiefs as he could to come for it. This happened in 1822. As part of the lead up, a "tartan craze" developed and EVERYONE wanted some. Taking notes from Scott's Waverley books, they wanted "their" tartan and the weavers were happy to accomidate the crowds of customers with what they wanted . . .

Of key note is that older clan chiefs had NO IDEA what a "clan tartan" was, much less what theirs' were. So, some grabbed some old tartan fabric item in their home or on their estate (the rich ones anyways) and used that. Others asked Wilsons for advise, and Wilsons told them whatever someone of the same name had bought, picked one randomly, or picked one asking the chief what colors they would like. Many of the tartans dating from around 1820 are results of these.

Later in the mid-late 1800s, several "tartan books" were published with pictures or fabric samples identifying the clan tartans by name. Some were made in conjunction with a major mill, while one famous one (the Sobieski Brothers book) was an outright fraud. Still, many known tartans from today some from it (the fraud book), inc. Wallace.
As for number, at the time of the 1746 Jacobite Rebellion, there were only 50-60 clans, depending on how you could, and only a dozen or so of any real size. The number of clans seems fairly consistent through Scottish history, through the exact ID changes and clans rise, fall, and are replaced. Yet, there were soon hundreds of "clan tartans" known in the 19th Century, with thousands of named and registered tartans today.

Recently, there was a national tartan registration database created in Scotland:
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/index.aspx

(This post was made VERY short, yet it covers a long, complex topic)

[TartanJack]

As for myself . . .
My surname is very, very rare (listed as barely above "probable misspelling" in name lists). It seems to have been created about 1690 (in the aftermath of the 1688 Glorious Revolution -when William and Orange and Mary became king and queen- and the 1689 Jacobite Rebellion). It shows up in Edinburgh (in an arrest record), Liverpool, and later in London. I've concluded someone was running from something in Scotland, created a new name, then ran south. So, it isn't a clan name, nor a sept, that fits my surname.
Now, I am hesitant in regards to "septs," as many are highly questionable as to ANY real connection. Septs started as real families that operated with and under a larger clan. They were often hereditary positions w/in the clan. Other times, they were a smaller clan that operated as a "junior branch" (related, but smaller and less powerful), a "broken clan" (a remnant of what had been a larger group that sought the protection of a friendly clan), an "associated clan" (an independent clan that often operated in conjunction to or in "cahoots" with a larger clan), or one of many associations. Some were, indeed, "broken men" who sought the protection of a clan, but often these would adopt the name of the clan.
Some septs are perfectly legit as "septs" or associated names. Most, however, seem to have been chosen at random by a group making a "my tartan is . . . " book, that just randomly assigned names to clans they those names had ZERO common ties to before.
Also, complicating things is that surnames weren't what we think of today, but were MUCH more fluid. People w/in an area were known by their immediate family, often not using a surname at all. Up into the 17 and 1800s, census takers were driven crazy in Scotland by "no one having proper last names" . . .
What could (and often did) happen:
A man living with the Gordons is named Donald, a common Scot first name. He has sons that are known as "MacDonald" (Son of Donald) in their area. When they move to a city in the south, they are asked their name. One may give the name "Gordon," as they have been under the House of Gordon, while another says "MacDonald" for he is the son of Donald.
Now, generations pass and the children's children move to the US. One son becomes interested in their family roots. So, they study geneology. Now, is name is Donald MacDonald, so he has a few MacDonald kilts made, plus a tattoo with the clan badge and slogan. Yet, as he researches, he discovers that a direct ancestor was ----- MacDonald from Huntly, son of Donald, who worked for Lord Gordon. Then, he finds his family are actually Gordans and have NOTHING to do with MacDonald, Lord of the Isles, except coincidence. (That is based on an ACTUAL account related by a MacDonald I saw working a Gordon tent. I asked why, expecting it was through his wife. I was shocked and astounded.)

Anyway, my known clan ties include:
Gordon, through the sept of Todd (ALWAYS listed as a Gordon but I'm not sure why)
Gunn, through Wilson (reason for that one)
MacNeil, through Neel
Wallace
MacGregor, through Grier
Campbell
Grant (so I'm told, haven't seen the connection)
-more

By marriage:
Gordon, through Todd (completely different strain, back through 1800)
MacLeod, through Lewis
-more


Plus, there are "regional" or "district" tartans. These are tartans associated with a region, rather than a clan. Deeside and Carolina are examples of these kinds of tartans. Those were adopted as the official tartan by the body who oversees the area of Deeside in Scotland and the State Legislatures of North Carolina and South Carolina.

For ANY tartan, what makes it official is when whoever is head of what it claims to represent says and adopts that tartan as its own.
A clan tartan is so b/c the chief says so.
A district tartan is so b/c the council over that region says so.
A state tartan is so b/c the state legislature adopts it as a state symbol, like the state bird, state flower, state motto, and so forth.
An organizational tartan is so b/c the head of the organization says so.
A corporate tartan is adopted by the board, CEO, president, or so forth.

All other tartans are personal (adopted by ONE person) or fashion. A fashion tartan is simply a generic named tartan, which has NOT been officially adopted by what it is named. A well known tartan that is officially a fashion tartan is Campbell of Argyle, which is specifically listed as NOT a clan tartan by the Duke of Argyle, Chief of Campbell. Argyle simply says that the Campbell tartan is: http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/index.aspx PERIOD. There isn't another, except for specific ones adopted by smaller landed and titled branched of the Campbell extended family. http://www.ccsna.org/jsep50a.htm#A0 (official statement of Argyle on Campbell tartans- which sets what is and is not a Campbell tartan).


Oh, and the common present Scottish practice is where what you like, but know what it is. Americans and Canadians are more worried about wearing specific clan tartans than Scots.
I tend to wear ones I have some sort of tie to, whether by blood, marriage, fond thought, historical respect, or some other good sounding reason.
Honestly, a "I am wearing **** . . . . b/c I like the colors" is one real answer. I haven't used it, but HAVE heard a chief SAY IT (I'm not allowed to say who it was, by a promise made at the time after a good chuckle together)!

[TartanJack]

If folks don't know, heavy worsted wool is EXPENSIVE, like $75-120/yard. So, I have been looking for ones I can get w/o spending most of a thousand dollars on fabrics in my vehicle. These are my favorites I have from what I've found.

My ties to the tartans in this poll:

Deeside is a tartan I got for a good deal, I REALLY like the colors, and have interest in the history of the area. That is where a good by of Scottish history took place.

Brotherhood of the Kilt is a group I am part of (and a mod on the group forum/web presence). I lead the move to get a tartan, drove and organized the voting, and set up everything from initial idea to final decision. The design itself isn't mine (my designs lost out in the voting, one came in as runner-up).
http://www.kiltsrock.com/
http://www.kiltsrock.com/forum/

Wallace is one family tartan I have easy access to (as long as 96 District Storehouse is able to keep getting it), at a reasonable price ($15/yard), and in a decent weight. I'm not sure how well it will wear as a seat cover, but the material is great for other things. I also like this tartan too.

Black Watch/Campbell/Munro/Grant/Sutherland is probably the most commonly made tartan around, is widely recognized, is now seen as an "open" or "free" tartan, which was originally known as "Government Sett" and used by military units. I also like it in that it is connected to the Campbells, which I am interested in a particular sett of chiefs from the 1600s and 1700s.
This tartan is in my favorite colors (black, dark green, and dark blue), plus I have a decent amount of clothes and fabrics in this tartan already.
This would be my "default tartan" if I didn't use any of the others.
I have EASY access to it in a heavy wool (same source and price as Wallace), light flannel, and even a couple pieces of a heavy cotton flannel.

Carolina is the official state tartan for where I like and where I like to drive when have free time to waste.

Meanwhile, the Red and Green one is simply a material I found and plan to use for reenacting. I like it, it isn't anything named (as far as I have found), but looks to be in a real, old pattern and hues (is in the same shades as Wilson's used)

[DertySciko]

you're killing me! it's too early.. :) you're a scottish mutt!! jk jk

silver gen2 correct?

[Chewy]

After reading all of the above the most logical choice would be the Black Watch tartan, due to accessibility, most recognized and clan ties. However personal preference makes me lean towards the Brotherhood of the Kilt. My own tartan looks similar except with more brown to it (mine being a hunters tartan).

[TartanJack]

you're killing me! it's too early.. :) you're a scottish mutt!! jk jk
It isn't early on the east coast, it's lunchtime and cold . . .
And, your right. Like most, I am a mutt.
Yet, of all the names I can trace (my own surname is the mystery one), ALL are Scottish except for my maternal grandmother, whose family are practically of ALL German Lutheran stock (came to the American colony in the 1750s, settling just north of Columbia, South Carolina).


silver gen2 correct?Correct!

I'm thinking of naming it: Silver Thistle" or just "Thistle" . . .



After reading all of the above the most logical choice would be the Black Watch tartan, due to accessibility, most recognized and clan ties. However personal preference makes me lean towards the Brotherhood of the Kilt. My own tartan looks similar except with more brown to it (mine being a hunters tartan).
Which clan? Most "hunting" tartans are color variations of other tartans (except for MacLoed). If interested, I'll look up the related tartans.


Yep, I'm kinda interested in Scottish stuff . . .
And tartan . . . (The above posts were written off-the-top of my head)
Hence, the name . . .

[TartanJack]

Delete this post . . .

[TartanJack]

Found a shot of seats in Wallace . . .
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3206/2902947477_d648cc6747_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3049/2903792174_55635384c1_b.jpg

While I LOVE the Wallace tartan . . .

Too much . . .

[DertySciko]

aye..a wee bit. well i wouldn't go that far out.. seats and door panels. one or the other. you could always use the scotland forever tartan.